I can see why the people of Toledo want this low life out of office. I may not be from Toledo, but I am a former Marine and damn proud of it. Wait til he needs the support of the Marine Corps, then he will be begging for the Corps intervention. And he calls himself an American ! Ha ! Semper Fi !

As a former Marine, who currently works for the Marine Corps as a contractor, and as a personal friend of Charles Hessler, I concur. We served together for a few years, and a finer Marine can't be found. He should run for mayor and provide the leadership which is obviously lacking with Mr. Finkleboozer or whatever his name is.

Just one more unpatriotic act by one more unpatriotic politician. MARINES come to Atlanta, we will be proud to have you!

that crazy ole mayor ought to be kicked out of office this isn't the first time he's done this. I wish he had a son fighting over seas., maybe he would think before he acts. what has he really done for toledo in the last couple of years, think about it. bad example for children using in profanity, losing his temper, now again this. get lost Carty u need a long vacation.

We have a population so chemically and electronically dumbed down population, they will believe anything the box tells them.

This drill is to acclimate you to military presence. This drill is not needed. The military has facilities that mimic urban environments.
It is most likely too late, look at G.W. Bush, blatant criminal, and nothing is done.
America deserves the removal of it's rights and liberties, for it has done little to honor/protect them.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." some guy named Ben Franklin.

He's a FINK alright!

Carty Finkbeiner was always been an embarrassment to the city of Toledo with his previous antics when he was the mayor before Jack Ford was elected to the office. My wife and I moved away from the Toledo area in 2004 and retired in East TN. I was very surprised when I found out over the internet that this imbecile was voted back into office for another term as Toledo's mayor. It doesn’t say very much for the citizenry of Toledo if they put this embarrassment to the city in office. Mr. Finkbeiner is a real dunce in my own personal opinion and a great embarrassment to the city of Toledo.

i have just learned of this mishap in Toledo, and i must say i am shocked @ what i have read. I am an active duty Navy and was born and lived most of my life in Toledo. Toledo has alway backed it's troops, and Ohio itself has a lage % of its young men and wemen that have served or that still are. I think it was a unilateral Decision made by the mayor, and should have had the communitys voice more involved in the outcome. The Marines are here to protect us and our freedom and if they ask the city of Toledo to help them to do there jobs then the city should be willing to do what it takes. If one of my brothers or sisters is able to stay alive because of a weekend of war game that took place in toledo, OH then why would we not jump @ the chance to do so. The mayor should be put in his place by the people of Toledo, and should not be able to make such choices on his own. I would like to say that if one life is saved by 3 days of a small inconvenience then it was well worth it.

Sure glad that idiot is not Mayor of my City.
If ever Toledo needs help you can be sure the Marines would be there to help them..

Quote:
Since Toledo isn't known for French Fries or Toast. I quess that the next times in need a good scale I'll have to look for an American Scale. Bet it won't be a Toledo Scale.
— David Van Amburg, Puyallup, WA

Easy now, Toledo Scale bailed out of Toledo 30 years ago and moved to Columbus Ohio. Toledo Scale (Mettler-Toledo) is still an American company, at least as much as anyone can be in this world economy.

It's obvious that the mayor is out of touch with the offices in the city, especially the police. Where is the lack of communication? Look no further than the mayor's office. The mayor looks down on those in uniform while depending on them for the services they provide. The Marines had planned their training and notices were sent out and the police were on board. Was there any threat to the populace? No. Any chance of a city-wide panic? Only if certain people in city government didn't take their Ritalin that day. What this does is waste a lot of time training our troops. This time is valuable because this is the training that will keep them alive and keep them from making knee-jerk reactions. Maybe the mayor needs some training or maybe he had flashbacks to his history lessons about the Toledo War and the Michigan raids into Toledo. Sure he speaks his mind....he also cries in public over minor setbacks. I'm surprised he has been mayor for as long as he has. I can only think that the people that would have tipped the scales and added the few extra percent to vote him out had already left Toledo years ago because of their disgust at Carty's administration.

As a former Toledoan with a career in the military, I've pride in my city but not the city government. Shame on you Carty.

Besides, do you know what young Marines do after training events? They SPEND money. Who wants them to spend money in Toledo? Not Carty.

As a retired Marine 1st Sgt, MOUNT training is an absolute must. The lessons/Tactics I learned were used every day in Iraq and It saved many lives. IF the Mayor did not know, then he should have allowed it and then addressed the issue privately. He UNDERMINED the Leadership of the Police Force. I should run for Mayor. BASIC Leadership tells you DO NOT undermine your subordinte leaders in public

I was in charge of the Reserve unit located in Perrysburg and I orignally setup training with the city of Toledo back in 2002. We trained downtown several times usually with the policed department and its sad to see us get kicked out for something that the community always supported the Marine Corps on. The training provided a great opportunity for us that was not normally available for reserve units.

The mayor shouldn't have kicked the marines out of
toledo they need to papaer them selves for war,if it comes to Ohio. He needs to change his adatude about the Marines. Thats all he has to do, with him self.

Whats wrong here is never going to change as long as long wided air pushing people run the Federal Govt. and let a private company owned by other countries print our money...how come the Constitution say's that we (americans) will not have our streets run by the military and G. B. says that the constitutin is nothing" but a god dambed peice of paper" wow did anyone else see that speach or ore we just as duhhh as he is , Thanks to him Haliburton has control of the Caspian Sea oil and the Middle east oil and who pays the most for gas... is it in the middle east at 28 cents a gal....no wait its us the ones that control it that pay the most.....can a nation in control of such things realy explain selling it's land to so called Communist countries? or building by executive order internment camps or asking U.S.Military recrutes if they would shoot unarmed American People if ordered to? well shut your mouths and start doing your job WE THE PEOPLE realy it is that simple we run the country but in the last 35 yrs it's been by telling everyone else that the govt. is supposed too do that not me well wake up we are supposed to do that, and we need to drop the interational name tags and remember WE ARE AMERICANS, AND WE MUST STAND SHOULDER TO SHOULDER AS A WALL AND BASH ANYONE THAT STANDS IN THE WAY OF OUR WAY OF LIFE..WE HAVE HAD BORDER PATROL OFFICERS BEATEN WHILE GOING DOWN THE BORDER WITH MEX. AND SOM REALY HURT BY MEXICAN CIT. THAT JUST RUN BACK AND DARE US TO DO SOMETHING..LETS ALL GO AND EVERYONE BRING ONE LARGE BRICK AND ONE BAG OF CEMENT...YA THINK THAT MIGHT WORK ..NOT IF THE FED GOVNT. HAS ITS WAY TALK TO A TRUCK DRIVER..AMERICAN TRUCKERS ARE SEARCHED IF THEY ARE WITHIN 256 MILES OF THE BORDER AND THE MEXICAN DRIVERS CAN NOT BE STOPED FOR ANYREASON...A NES HIGHWAY FROM MEXICO CITY TO CANADA AND ONLY AMERICANS CAN BE SEARCHED OR STOPED FROM USEING IT...YES THAT IS WHAT THE BUSH TREATIES SAY..DO WE RUN AMERICA OR DO WE JUST LAY DOWN AND LET HIM TAKE OVER? LOOK IT UP KNOW WHATS UP AND TAKE RESPOSIBILITY FOR YOUR DUTY TO THE ONES THAT HAVE BEEN MURDERED OVERSEAS BY A HATE MONGER THAT WANTS CONTROL OF AMERICA AND WILL STOP AT NOTHING TO GET IT...SHOULD THE VICTOM (JUDGE) SHOT IN THE FACE REALY TELL THE SHOOTER ( THE VICE- PRES) HE IS SORRY WHAT WAS HE GOING TO TELL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THAT MADE V.P. SO MAD HE SHOT HIM?

just so u all know we are at war.... yes not with just one country but with the world but not the one u see when u look out your window but the world of terrorism and congress does know about.... to see a mayor act in such disregard for the lives and safe for our military men and women is gross... does he not know that what they are fighting for is him to keep him safe to keep him free so he can make such bad decisions.

As a woman who is dating a Marine in the 1/24 I am absolutely disgusted with the Mayor's decision. Toledo should be ashamed of this apparent 'leader' in office. I hope he's proud to look like he doesn't support our military men and women. Marines don't scare people. It's what they stand for that scares people and that's war. Anyone who would happen to be downtown at the time of their training would only look on with pride not with fear. Apparently, our MAYOR can't do that. What a shame.

I'm embarrassed to say the least that the Mayor would decline the Marine training in Toledo AND for the many negative comments I see here supporting the Mayor. First, why play Politics because you found out within days before the event. With your position, I'm sure if there were items that needed to be addressed, you have the power to get those items taken care of - this is nothing more than a power play. This is our Military and you are failing to support them - probably because you know the War in Iraq is unpopular and its an election year. Well, supporting our Military should not be confused with the War. There are many ways our Military serves all of us whether it be a peacekeeping mission, standing guard or being called upon in tough times. And we should support their efforts - you never know when those same Marines may be called upon to defend our interests within the United States - maybe even Toledo. When they do, they should have everything they need including the best equipt and TRAINING. Too bad a power struggle and Politics got in the way.

Dan Snyder Jr. US Navy 1983-1989 Home Town: Toledo

Terri, I'm relieved to see someone with some sense of what's really going on in the world today. God bless you! I support the military, have many friends and family in various branches, but something's not adding up.

We had national guard taking guns away in New Orleans.

Let that sink in a second. US troops just following orders to REMOVE CITIZENS RIGHT TO PROTECT THEMSELVES while the cops were out looting.

The cries of the mayor's unamerican or all this other garbage is a sure sign that the propaganda war is having some effect. Oh, and IF we were "at war" as some have claimed congress would have declared it and members of the service wouldn't be getting screwed over by the government. Go ask someone in the VA if they're getting all the benefits they are entitled to in the contract they signed. I've heard from some of them first hand that they are NOT.

Who would this spineless jellyfish call if Toledo was invaded ? Mmmm.....Tough one !!

R.I.P.
Posse Comitatus Act
1878-2006

I am glad you people live in such fear that you are happy to see the military on your streets because, I have a pretty strong feeling, it will be a common sight in the near future.(perhaps, that is the point?) I support our troops but I support the Constitution and laws of the land too.

Good for you, Mr. Mayor.

It is downright pathetic we have people of the likes of this so called leader in office. Toledo should be ashamed for this horrible mark on their city their Mayor has created.

The mayor of Toledo, Ohio needs to watch some of the scenes in Iraq where Iraqi children are smiling and waving at our Marines patroling the streets there...they know they are there to protect NOT harm innocent people. The mentality of some of the American people is unbelievable. Men and women who are willing to risk their lives are unwelcome in their own country to train and prepare for war so we can have freedom here. I truly don't understand how people can treat our brave men and women like that. I apologize to them for people like you, Mr. mayor.

For those of you who understand the role the military plays in our country I thank you.

The mayor of Toledo has really used exceptionally idiotic judgement. It strikes me as strange how when ever military assistance is needed, and always provided, it's good to have them around. In every event of natural disasters, faulty bridges, or levees they are always called upon. In addition to still being required to defend against all enemies foreign, or domestic. (TRAINING HELPS) To those of you who seem to think so negatively, I wonder if you remember who flew nonstop missions to rescue people not only during Katrina, but on a daily basis people sending SOS messages. The US Coast Guard. If one of your loved ones had been rescued you'd feel differently.

I live in Minnesota, and when the bridge collapsed it was US Navy sailors who dove into the murky dark water day after day to retreive bodies so families could at least have a little closure for loved ones.
That too requires (TRAINING). The accomplishments, and sacrifices that are rarely publicized, acknowledged, or appreciated is often taken for granted. I do support our troops, and yes, I do think we all should.

From the many thinly veiled threats and attempts at intimidation posted here, you would think the mayor was a member of AQ, or had planned the bombing of the Murrah building himself.

People, he has a job to do - the same as the Marines and their leadership. If any of his police captain subordinates disrespect his leadership, then he has to deal with it. Truth is that many people do not want to see our military, actively engaged within our own communities. It is unfortunate that this happened at the 11th hour, but sometimes that is how the real world works. Regardless, I would hope that anyone in the military, who claims to be a true patriot, would still do their job ... and not issue BS threats to leave the city of Toledo high and dry if they ever did need assistance. That would just make them the new extortionists on the block.

The world has no dearth of those types. What we desperately need is leadership and cojones. And like it or not, this man displayed a full metal jacket set, by sticking to his principles.

IM VERY GLAD THE PEOPLE IN TOLEDO ARE REBELLING.AGAINST THE MAYORS ACTIONS TOWARDS OUR MARINES. MY GRANDSON IS A MARINE AND WILL DEPLOY TO IRAQ IN SEPTEMBER.HE HIMSELF IS FROM ADRIAN MI. I WOULD HATE TO HAVE HIM THINK THAT PEOPLE IN TOLEDO OHIO DONT APPRECIATE THE SACRIFICES THAT HE WILL ENDURE OVER THERE . FOR THE VERY PURPOSE OF FIGHTING THERE AND NOT IN OUR HOMELANDS. BUT IT COULD HAPPEN AND WE NEED TO DO ALL WE CAN AS US CITIZENS TO ENDURE A SLIGHT INCONVENICE IT MIGHT CAUSE BECAUSE OF THEYRE NEED TO TRAIN .IN ALL USA CITIES.THE MAYOR WAS CONCERN IT MIGHT FRIGHTEN PEOPLE. DOES HE HAVE ANY IDEA HOW FRIGHTENING IT WOULD BE IF IT WAS THE REAL THING AND WERE NOT PREPARED?GOOD JOB TOLEDO OHIO CITIZENS.

Storm his building for practice and run him out of towm he should not receive any federal funds for his city. I hope every Veteran,Soldier and Marine haunt him everyday of his life. I am certain someone has a ticket for him along with Hanoi Jane out of the USA.

It's about time somebody is exercising power at the level of the people. Thanks for keeping the military out. They can build a house and train on the base.
Let the police SERVE and protect. Military does not belong in the cities, frisking people at ball games, and doing random searches. What are they trying to do?, get us used to the military running around breaking stuff up in the neighborhood?

You seem to forget, the military is not just called in for terrorist attacks. They are called in when the city has riots and other disturbances that have nothing to do with foreign terrorist. They call in reservists, and whatever military assistance needed, when plain old americans, or groups of protesters get out of control.... Remember the riots out Stickney a couple of years back??? I am ashame to be a BUCKEYE... By the way I am from Toledo, and I am ashamed of the incident... not the city, The Mayor, I have always bragged about my home, now I guess I can shut up about my hometown. I love the military men and women... Thank You for keeping me and mine safe.

No military personel ever wants war, but we cannot rely on the good will of our fellow man. So our Military volenteers to protect us from that evil. They can come to my city to train anytime! SEMPER FIDELIS

The mayor and all his predecessors and accessories in destruction of Toledo have made sure that Toledo Ohio is a graveyard of old businesses that have gone elsewhere to thrive. Toledo is a ghost town, who's going to be scared to see the marines? There's nobody in town to see them? Most of the buildings are empty which makes this a great place for military drills.

Marines scare the enemy and terrorists, I guess Carty is either one of those or thinks the citizens of Toledo are.

Good grief, can this Mayor do anything right? Has any mayor of this city ever got it right? Looks like it has been a ghost town for a long time to me.

Clearly someone in the Mayor's office needs to be fired, possibly including himself. Clearly his people don't communicate well and he needs to dedicate some of his federal funding to upgrade his inter-office communications. He should also take a look at who he authorizes to communicate with DoD and other federal agencies. It is truly staggering that he would not have been informed of a something this significant. If DHS and the Coast Guard did an exercise on the lake (which they do) that included police and other emergency responders, he would know, why wasn't he informed of this? If he's not an outright liar or incompetent, I would imagine he's already asked these questions of his staff, and should consider firing some people. If he goes after the police however, he's wrong.

I've participated in urban exercises in downtown LA and operated on the Yuma border with the Border Patrol. LA was live fire assault training, Yuma was a Counter Naroctics / Counter-Illegal Immigration op under what was then JTF-6. In both cases the training and experience received ported naturally to the operational environment overseas.

In LA our snipers gained experience in high-angle shooting, raid coordination, expedient communications, and a host of other skills. The high-angle shot, in particular, couldn't be duplicated in the two-story combat towns on base. It's a whole different ballgame when you're shooting from a high vantage point in an urban environment. Wind is different in cities, window glass affects the strike, communications are difficult. It's all good training.

Iraq is 99% urban warfare. Snipers on high vantage points supporting ground troops assaulting a target. They need to know what works and what doesn't BEFORE they get to the battlefield.

But hey, the Marines could use the extra money. Give them about $30 Billion and they'll build elaborate urban warfare cities on base so they can do this training. The Marines are NOT rich in comparison to the other services. They pride themselves on making due, making something from nothing, and keeping equipment working long after the warranty is out and the contractors have moved on.

I see their training as an opportunity and don't know why more Mayors don't put the military to good use.

The military are very experienced at tearing stuff down. Got an urban blight problem, call the combat engineers. Cordon off a few blocks of urban blight let them play with their dozers, mine plows, explosives.

Have an old factory or warehouse that's ruining the landscape? Combat engineers can help. They'd probably love the opportunity to figure out how best to drop a building. Right now they do it with 500lb bombs and Tomahawk missiles. Same thing goes for old bridges. (Just make sure they plan to remove the downed bridge, not just blow it up...)

Bottom line, Mayor, get your people squared away. Communicate. Look at military training as an opportunity to introduce new faces to your city. Appoint a special liaison for the military that not only keeps you informed, but also ensures that the military are given opportunities to experience your city beyond just the training exercise. Help them find suitable billeting and encourage them to visit local shops. Brief them on the historic significance of the city and work with the military's Morale, Welfare, and Recreation people to arrange tours and events for the visiting military. In the case of the 1/24th (of which I was a member), they're all reservists. Would you rather they go to Sandusky or Cincinnati on their non-drill weekends? Give them a reason to come back, show them what Toledo have to offer. Who knows maybe they'll even spend some money...

I Like having a Mayor not afraid to say what he Thinks. I Don't want them near my house sneaking around playing war either.

mariens, go away far away, you are not protecting american lives. But killing innocent people. with this unjust war. I dont care what any of you war mongrles say, freedom isnt free, and such.If you are all so much for this war, Go fight it, It's easy when others lose there son's

Wouldn`t it be nice for the city of Toledo to need some sort of military assistance or presence from the Marines & be denied .

James, William, et al ... Did you ever stop to think fighting on "their" ground substantially reduced the number of incidents on ours? As for the sheeple comment, I remember what sheeple looked like in 1978, 1991, and 2001. It's the same sheeple mentality we have running around today popping off at the mouth without a clue concerning international and domestic affairs today.

You're wholly entitled to your personal opinion. I and others, before and after, ensured you had, have and will have the right to do so. That same right, however, gives me the opportunity to say idiots shouldn't breed much less attempt an intelligent conversation with others.

As for this mayor, I find it hard to believe his administration didn't keep him informed on significant events occurring in his area of operations. That says the the people working for him failed at their job, or he isn't paying attention to detail. Either way, his leadership skills appear sub par to say the least. Isn't it ironic that most of our military personnel learn that in basic training? Regardless, I have to wonder what else he doesn't know about going on in his town.

Back when the law was the law, they would hang people for Committing Treason against their country,the Mayor would have been a prime candidate for that honor.
I can not see why the people of Toledo voted in this peckerwood to office. When I was still in Yuma,AZ,(the home of Marine Corps Air Station Yuma) the Mayor and the City Council, as well as its citizens welcomed the Marines when they did urban warfare training, they realized that the more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in War. The people of Toledo, as well as the
rest of our country must realize that urban training in the U.S. is very important to the survival of our military personnel, so lets support them. It's better to fight them "Over There", than "Here". In, closing find a new Mayor, your present one is a dud.

Bronco Bill, Tombstone, AZ

Brad Epperson, Troy, MI, I salute you for speaking The Truth and you residents of Toledo ought to be thankful for having a mayor who has the guts to stand up against tyranny.

This isn't about supporting the troops of keeping America safe. This is about the Rule of Law, spelled out in the US Constitution.

For those of you screeching about "liberals", I would suggest that you step back from talk radio, the latest episode of American Idol and the false left/right paradigm, buy yourself a copy of the Constitution, the supreme Law of the Land, and read it. It's really easy to understand.

Then, go check out how many violations of said document by our elected REPRESENTATIVES (yes, they work for US) there have been in the past 10 years or so. Hint: you'll be shocked.

If, after that, you still think the job of the federal government is to "keep us safe", ask yourself some questions, such as: Why do we protect the borders of other countries while not protecting our own? Why are we closing bases on US soil while building bases overseas? Why has our military been sent on multiple and extended (look up stop-loss) tours to the middle east? Why has the national guard been federalized and sent to fight in foreign wars? Why is there draft legislation "on the table"? Why has the only anti-war presidential candidate received more donations from the military than the war-mongers? Since when did questioning the propaganda (and it IS propaganda) coming out of DC become unpatriotic? Since when did being against the war mean that you're against the troops? Why has the war been sanitized by the media (it wasn't during Vietnam)?

Why indeed does any branch of the military need to practice for urban warfare on the streets of America....unless there's some future need for urban warfare on the streets of America? Remember now, our great leaders have told us that all those countries "over there" are 3rd world.

Please, my fellow Americans, free your mind and WAKE UP before it's too late! Our country is being destroyed by people who are violating their oath of office on a daily basis.

Thomas Jefferson said, "He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors."

So don't take my word for it, do your own research. We have a country to take back. And by the way, before you throw insults my way, I am a life-long conservative but this has nothing to do with political philosophy and everything to do with preserving our beloved Country and all it stands for.

What the mayor did was unacceptable. He was in no way the voice of the people in Toledo, Ohio nor the voice of the American people. God bless the Marines that gives their lives for this great country. I have personally seen the untimate sacrifice we give. Their selfless acts of bravery will never be foregotten. I am not angry that he opposes the Marines in ohio as much as I am angry that he is a respresentative of the people in Toledo, Ohio and abused his representation by making decisions based on his own views and not the views of the people he serves. If I saw him in person, I would give him a piece of my mind!

-Sergeant of the Marines

The Constitution strictly forbids the military being used in policing American citizens. If we had attacks on any of our urban areas, the local law enforcement and SWAT teams are more then capable of dealing with even a well armed terrorist threat. In every war game that the SWAT teams have been put up against even the special forces of our military in an urban setting the military was soundly defeated. These people deal with threats every day, and to be honest I trust them more then our soldiers in domestic situations. I support our troops, but we have police for a reason. And contrary to this administration's policies, the constitution is not "optional".

As a former Marine and Vietnam veteran
1970-74
Its obvious by these e-mails and there responses how ridiculous this mayors move was. But notice some comments to the contary. And they truly believe they are right. Like when they closed the marine base in puerto Rico. For years we used it for mountain training. The U.S.A. Paid rent for that usage plus the people did business with the troops. Food, bars. souverniers. any and all items. now they get nothing.
except some real estate big shots are going to grab that land dirt cheap and built Vacation spots.
its not about fear and human rights its always about the almighty buck and political bull----.
the Marine has always takin it on the chin.
we are used to it. God bless the CORPS and the Brave Grunt in it.

I suggest an informal survey by the newspaper in the city to find out what the residents of the city thinks? I hope the coming election will be a clear referendum on the growing militaristic attitude among federal and local governing bodies . Are we in all time war against the universal evil of islamofacisme, or we need to protect American democracy from a growing totalitarian tendencies tendencies in our owen political life.

Are you people kidding me???? Do you KNOW WHAT MARTIAL LAW IS??? DO YOU KNOW WHAT IS IT USED FOR and WHAT IT IS PLANNED TO BE USED FOR???

Remember how well martial law worked out in LA, after hurricane Katrina? Innocent American citizens were taken out of their own homes, handcuffed and stripped of their weapons, for "their own protection". So much for the 2nd amendment. Innocent people were also held against their will, not allowed to take their sick, injured, hungry families to food, water, or to find missing family members. THANKS FEMA! Did you all forget this already, or did you never pay attention in the first place???

Get your arrogant heads out of the sand and do some homework before spewing ignorance. It is deeply disturbing to watch our great nation look more like nazi Germany every day, while people like you ENABLE it.

It is apparent that none of you who are blasting the Mayor have ANY IDEA WHATSOEVER what DIRECTIVE 51 is. According to the directive, written and signed by President Bush, gives him near-dictatorial powers if he were to declare a (national) "castastrophe". The wording is so vague that it wouldn't even have to occur on American soil - say avian flu breakout in Japan. The president then would assume control of ALL 3 EXECUTIVE BRANCHES OF GOV, STATE AND LOCAL GOV, and PRIVATE SECTOR ORGANIZATIONS; INITIATE NATIONAL MARTIAL LAW; CANCEL ELECTIONS (even presidential) and more. Existing FEMA "camps" will be used to detain people, similar to after Katrina.

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with TERRORISTS. The faster you wake up and realize this the better. Google directive 51. Youtube has many videos on the subject, including news reports.

Oh, guess who also had a Directive 51 -and by the same name????? ADOLPH HILTER. Google it.

First we have the "im scared and im ganna poop my pants crowd", Then we have the "how dare you insult the mighty military crowd"

then you have the sensible crowd that actually understands the constitution and rule of law. Not to mention the fact that someone made which is correct. Usually only opressive nations such as Red China, USSR, North Korea etc. feel the need to flex their military muscle in public. They're are training places that are appropriate for this. Aldus Huxley was right.....he was right about most of you fools. Start reading and stop drooling at the TV screans with MSM talking heads scaring you like little children.

The mayor upheld the law and the constitution by doing that, btw the mayor of San Antonia did the same thing a few years back. The lack of understanding the law and the constitution by some of my fellow americans is disturbing. So sorry the military wasn't able to train how combat war fare against the american people. Get educated you mindless drones.

I and many, I believe, of my friends here in San Francisco, Oakland, and Berkeley, California, called to offer our thanks and support to Toledo Mayor Carty Finkelbeiner for what seemed like a hugely courageous stance against militarism.

We oppose the Wars on Iraq, Afghanistan, and that on Africom, represented by the military plan to build a permanent U.S. military base in every single African country except Egypt. None of these wars are protect in any way whatsoever; they rob, murder, and brutalize the world's most vulnerable peoples.

They endanger and damage us all by creating social instability, irreparable toxic contamination, and ill will all over the world. And by forcing us to live with the moral burden of all this done in all of our names.

This is not about honoring our soldiers or our veterans. If we honored our soldiers we would bring them home and continue to employ them to plant trees, build sustainable energy infrastructure, and sustainable communities.

If we honored our veterans, we would not leave them homeless all over our streets or let them suffer all the problems labeled as post-traumatic stress behavior: addiction, domestic and other forms of violence, homelessness, and suicide.

It saddens me to see Toledo Mayor Carty Finkelbeiner turn his back on what at first seemed like a courageous anti-war decision, on behalf of both the people of Toledo and peoples all over the world, and invite the U.S. Marines to train elsewhere in Toledo, though I'm sure the pressure on him is enormous.

We are going through similar struggles out here with counter-recruitment efforts. None of our politicians seem courageous enough to take an anti-war, anti-recruiting stance as our representatives; instead they send us to draft ballot initiatives to make the U.S. Armed Services and their recruitment drives unwelcome in our hometowns. --Ann Garrison, San Francisco, CA

Apparently ~DW Jobe, of Yuma, AZ your report of the training exercise being scheduled 6 to 8 months in advance with only the police knowing about it is mighty suspicious. Usually that kind of thing gets approved 6 to 8 mths in advance and is announced by local media, which it wasn't? Was it? Communication break down again. Never rely on the local authorities to get it right.

Messages like "support the troops" even though they are commiting war crimes and slaughter unarmed civilians.
Moreover if somebody dares to fight back this neo nazi army these wineys cry out loudly.

Add the ridiculous executive power and speeches "let's get things done" - even if we are terribly wrong than you have it.

USA have replaced the former German Nazi state.

Marines training in American Cities is more reminiscent of COMMUNISTS AND FASCIST regimes than The Great Republic of the United States of America. Mayor Carty Finkbeiner was correct and very heroic in saying no to this collectivist totalitarian behavior! This kind of operation is a violation of the Posse Commitatus Act and an affront to the American people. It makes a mockery of our constitutional republic and it is a threat against the people of this country. For those of you who support this: you are more of a communist than a conservative, comrade! You should read the chapter on the psycology of the conervative without conscience in the book Consrvatives Without Conscience by John Dean. That is you. However, I disagree that you are conservatives. You are collectivist totalitarians who are more akin to communists than anything else. In every way a poor excuse for an American and what the Bolshevicks called a "useful idiot." You should emmigrate to Red China! Let me reiterate, YOU ARE NOT CONSERVATVE AT ALL!

KUDOS to the MAYOR! about time we had locals that had back bones against the military industrial complex that has taken over our lives since the false flag operation of 911.

I wish to applaud your bravery, Mr. Mayor. Don't let these people get you down. No one hates the Marines, in fact just the opposite. We need them and adore them. Let us not turn this into something it is not, everyone. The mayor had good reason to what he did, and he had you people in mind. It would do everyone well to understand his reasons.

ALERT:

Well...the 1st amendment seems to be healthy.

We were were told of people like this. selling out , giving it away or just non carring humans of a once PROUD COUNTRY. LOVE GOD AND COUNTRY OR GET THE HELL OUT NOW!!! AND PLEASE! Take this Mayor and all like him with you!

Do citizens in Toledo not realize there is a higher statistical chance that they will be hit by Lightning Twice.. than there is they will encounter a Terrorist?

The Mayor was right to ask the Marines to Leave.

We Should not be Ruled by Fear but by Sanity!!!

I am ashamed that Toledo has selected a mayor who has such disdain for the very people who protect his right to free thinking. I was proud to have been raised in Toledo. I don't think my feeling about Toledo can ever be restored.
Bob Garbe, a 68 year old Marine
Canal Winchester, Ohio
1007 Groveport Rd
614-837-3097

I would like to commend Mayor Finkbeiner. You made a decision in the best interests of the residents of your city, and you stuck to it.

I'd like to make a couple of statements about some of the events as printed in the article.

The mayor made his views very clear to the former police chief when he said, 'the mayor told then police Chief Jack Smith, that he did not want the marines back.' The word BACK should be emphasised there.

Former chief Smith then objected to the directive given by his superior, 'he and the mayor had a heated exchange about the training.'

I take it that Chief Smith might have deliberately withheld the directive from the new police chief out of spite. It also looks like that information was not given to the Marines. That might be a deliberate breakdown in communication.

In my community the police chief is an appointed position and he/she serves at the discretion of the Mayor. There is no way that the police chief should be 'running' the city. That responsibility belongs to the mayor. The current police chief should be looking for new employment if he gave permission to the Marines without consulting the mayor and receiving an affirmative reply.

There is no reason for the Marines to be practicing MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) operations in cities of the United States, unless they are planning on waging warfare in those same cities. Then we need to ask, "Who are they planning on fighting?" The only logical answer is a scary one, us. The typical scenario for this type of training is US forces are fighting 'the militia'. According to the Militia Act of 1792 that’s all able bodied men between the ages of 18 and 45. That’s the scary part. The armed forces are training to fight the citizens

Our law enforcement is getting too militarized as it is. We don't need the military enforcing martial law upon American citizens.

Up until last year, we had the Posse Comitatus Act of 1876 protecting us from the military. The current draft dodger in the Whitehouse had that law rescinded with the complicity of congress along with habeas corpus and the 4th amendment in the Patriot acts I & II.

Yes Mayor Finkbeiner, you made a wise decision in standing up to oppression and intimidation.

This article raised a few questions with me.
1. Why are Marines stationed in Michigan training in Ohio?
2. Why are active duty Marines stationed stateside, and National Guard units in Iraq, Afghanistan?
3. Michigan has several abandoned military bases, why aren't those being used for training?
4. What foreign city or country looks like Toledo Ohio?

Good for him! KUDOS! With the amount of our taxes being spent on budgets for our military, police, national guardsmen, FBI, CIA, ATF, homeland security, secret service, sheriffs, constables, etc, etc, etc, I'm sure they can find another place to play good guys against the bad guys besides using the city streets of our nation. It's almost laughable to think they believed it would be appropriate to do so.

All this is about, is to pratice for Martial Law that is coming to OUR country. They have praticed in Californa also. Can some one give me a reason besides how I feel??

This incident, together with the Berkeley City Council (go to You Tube for examples) encouraging their citizens to impede Marine recruiters to include trying to have them thrown out of their city, is totally outrageous.

Our American Legion, VFW along with all other patriotic and sensible people anywhere near the Toledo area need to show up at City Hall in force and use their constitutional rights to voice their disapproval with this type of comment being said while we are at war.

Remember people...we still are at war, like it or not. If we weren't at war, you could just nod your head and almost laugh it off. But it just ain't funny when many of us have our sons and daughters directly in harm's way.

In one word...shameful!

Billy Szych
Father of Active Duty Marine
Past Commander of American Legion Post 344
Iraq War Veteran

I am completely astonished and appalled by the liberal left wing hatred that is presented to myself and my fellow brothers and sisters in arms. I am a Private First Class in the United States Army, and I proudly serve my COUNTRY and the people that live here. I serve the ignorant and the few levelheaded citizens of my Country; I fight for your right to bash me in public and to destroy my funeral if I so die in combat. I serve because I want to, not because I have to. I do this for you, the citizens and residents of this great Nation. I can honestly say that to those of you who do despise me for protecting you when you do need protecting and for going out and putting my OWN life on the line for you and your children, YOU ARE WELCOME.

To Ben G. from the Oregon Coast, why is it that you believe that when the military makes an attempt to be out in the public and to try to train in an urban environment you think that we are just trying to flex our muscle? If we were just trying to flex our muscle, we would go and storm into your home with our weapons, but we don’t do that. You have us confused with some radical extremist group or some kind of thing like that. We don’t stand for terror and crime and hatred, we stand for FREEDOM, the same freedom that you have just used by saying that we are just trying to flex our muscles by having an exercise.

I would like to Thank Don Bressel of California for his support on this topic, and all of the other PROUD citizens of our Country. On behalf of the United States Army, I appreciate the support that you give to myself and to my fellow Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, Airman, and even to the Coast Guard. To Mr. James Schaeffer of the great state of New York, I do not understand why it is that you HATE US SO MUCH. War games are just that games, they are not real, but they help us prepare for the real deal. How is it that you can go and despise the Military and all that we do?

I know that these comments will not change the minds of many people here in America, but I hope that you can support us when we DIE for you and we Protect you from here and abroad. On our own soil and on foreign soil. I just want to thank those of you who did read my comments on this topic. I hope that you all have a blessed day and God Bless America!!!

PFC Auchey United States Army

The mayor's actions disgust me. I am however almost as disgusted at some of the comments on here. I can not believe people in this country are so disrespectful to the ALL VOLUNTEER MILITARY we have in this country. If it wasn't for the brave men and women that sign up and serve this country , all of you who have such a hatred for our troops would be DRAFTED! I almost wish it would happen to see the cowards all run and hide. At least the troops are brave and have love for AMERICA! I am proud of every soldier that serves. I am proud of all the families that support them and all other Americans that actually support them and their families for all the sacrifices they make for our country. My husband is in Iraq right now. He is a member of the NG and if Toledo or any other city in America has an issue , he will go there and protect them. To all of you that feel such hatred for our troops , don't worry if it comes down to it , my husband as well as any other US Soldier will risk his life to save your scared butt. To all the heroes in our military , come to my city any time , my daughter and I will be there in Red , White and Blue waving the flags for you!!! Thanks for all your bravery !!!!
Kellie Proud Army wife to a brave NG soldier serving in Iraq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The people of Toledo, that is. They elected this man not once, not twice, but three times. I think the Marines should train in a different city, simply for their own protection. No need to take chances with a city full of stupid people!

The Mayor once again looks like an idiot in the national media. I was in Tucson, AZ when I saw the story on the news. I was ashamed to tell people I was from Toledo. I wish I would have singed the recall petition.

Reading some of the comments from the conspiracy theorists and American hateing ultra liberals is disheartening to say the least. To the Marines-thank you for all you do!! May God bless each of you and your families. To the mayor, you make me ashamed to admit I'm from the Buckeye State-shame on you-

Mr. Mayor,
Wouldnt it be better to ask the marines to postpone their war game in downtown until after business hours, instead of only giving them only 3 hours to get out. If you have a problem with your communication its not the marines fault. I lived in Toledo for 10 years, your no better now then you were then, and yes I think you owe the United States Marines an apology and, I think you or the city of Toledo should pay for the money that they lost for coming down there and getting kicked out!

Never have I seen two such similar people. To Jason, ignorance abounds with you. Stop trying to rewrite history and accept what happened and the reasons for it. Your statemants about 9/11, Pearl Harbor and the bombings in Japan were absurd. You clearly enjoy the freedoms of this country but don't have the guts to defend it. You'd never make it in the military. It takes perserverance, courage, strength and a love of this country and what it stands for to be a good soldier, sailor. Marine or airman. To Mr. Mayor, the people of your great city should vote you out as soon as possible. I'm so tired of hearing about "leaders" in this country who seem so anti-America. You'd be the first one yelling for help from the National Guard or the Armed Forces if you had a tragedy befall your city. Set a positive example and embrace our values and our military. If you can't do that, step down and let a real patriot do the job. Kathy Thompson, veteran from Ct.

A lovely blend of miscommunication, politics and stupidity. I understand the mayor is planning an assault on Motherhood also. Why, he could use the Marines.......maybe not.

Americas Military Has Never Defended Freedom
Our freedom has not been attacked. Pearl Harbor was one bombing, 9/11 was some sort of scam. Did we really need to invade europe and scorch 2 jap cities to protect our freedom??

Is it me or is the tail wagging the dog?

— Jason Henderson, California
Mr Henderson, the reason you can make that statement is that the American Military has defended this country. And what have you done to serve your country?

We can still tar & feather people right?!!! Some of these people need it desperately.

As I read this news report and this forum's responses, I swear I think I hear TAPS playing for your political career in the background.

These will be the same Marines of the same military who WILL still come to your aid in any event with which it is needed.

You stepped on the land mine and never heard it click.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

K. A. PELSINSKI
former
GMG3 UNITED STATES NAVY 1990-1994

I thought the mayor of my city had no brain-cell function.

HKerr
Baltimore
married to one of The Few and The Proud

Mayor Carty Finkbeiner should be forced to resign, then invited to exercise one of his many American Freedoms.... that of leaving our grand country. The mayor has obviously never served in our fine United States Military, nor suffered the loss of a loved one who has served. I feel that anyone in a leadership/political position should serve in our military first. They could have the freedom of choosing which branch they want to serve in and for 2,4,6,8 or more years. When they've walked in our shoes first and understand who they are serving and representing.... then and only then may they run for office. As for our United States Marines, those who are currently serving, have served or will be serving (Active Duty or Reserve) Semper Fi! Your country, your prior service and your Corpsman love you and are PROUD of YOU!! Thanks to all of our U.S. Military for your service and sacrifice and Thanks to your families, too!

Sooner or later this nation of ours will have a need for the Corps that will be characterized by a desperate situation in which our very liberty will be at stake. Namely, history repeats itself and that is an absolute constant.

Interesting that every empire (and we are an empire) has an elite warrior class. And yet as the U.S. has already peaked and is on the other side of our economic and geo-political apex; we choose to denegrate Marine Corp. The Marine Corps is the only institution in the U.S that has the resolve to do what it must, regardless of the cost and means, to defend our liberty. Essentially, the Marines are prepared to sacrifice their lives to defend our way of life so that you do not have to...freedom of worship, speech, assembly, etc. Of course we should be heartened that as Toledo's ambers fade and she safely slumbers, while there are thousands of U.S. Marines buried on foreign soil, they will not awake to galling sight of our United States Marine Corps training in their city.

The citizens of Toledo have the mayor to defend them, after all, he was ELECTED. And yet if the enemy came over the wall, I would not run behind the mayor. Elected politicians did not stop the death and tyranny at Pearl Harbour, Tarawa, Guadacanal, Khe Sahn, Chosin Peninsula, Belleau Wood...it seems as if the Mayor of Toledo is like most elected officials as he elevates himself and his narrowly defined interests at the expense of the greater good. And that is why, despite his ELECTION, the Mayor of Toledo could never have been a Marine.

Semper Fi

Hey Toledo, news flash: There ARE evil people in the world who want nothing more than to do one of two things:

1) Convert us to Islam
Or if that fails, they seek to:
2) Kill all of us, and they won't stop until even my little kids are dead

Now you see, we have these people called soldiers to protect us from them. I know the soldiers wake you up from your TV-induced false reality about the real world, and display the fact to you that those evil people are STILL out there, and STILL want to kill us, but for a second, if you want to get upset, get mad at the loons who try to tell you there's no such thing as good and evil, and every night before you go to bed, you thank God that there's men and women out there whose personal mission in life is to protect us from them, and you think to yourself "what can I do to help defend this nation?" Maybe its reminding other people you know that there are evil people out there, and our soldiers are there to protect us from them.

i served in the marines for four years.the military has many MOUNT facilities and other ways of training.training in the snow in toledo would have no real significance for deployment to iraq or afghanistan.so the real question is ''why toledo ohio?

"The only way you will see any government rip up the Constitution and put tanks in the street to oppress its citizens will be over the cold dead body of these same Marines."

I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT THAT!!! I believe most would not comply, but those that did follow orders should cause us to scrutinize why the training in the heart of America, when the action is nowhere near what we have here.

Toledo looks nothing like middle eastern cities, now does it?

Due to an executive order, the posse comitatus no longer exists---Herr Bush can order our own soldiers to contain US at his pleasure.

READ UP ON CURRENT EVENTS, PEOPLE!

This isn't wonderland anymore, Alice!

Seems the Marine officer planning the exercise would have first gotten approval for the operation with the mayor and city council, and coordinated ALL city services in the planning (not just police). Or, was this a "surprise invasion exercise"?

POSTER WRITES: Good Story -- Lousy Mayor. Makes you sad to be an American..........

Maybe it makes you sad because you're the one that's Un-American. The Mayor is acting More American than most of these posters. At least he's acting out his convictions and I agree with him and so does every other real Patriot! Shame on the GI who posted against the very man he's suppose to be defending HIS right to do what he's doing and for the rest of us who are working so hard to bring his buddies HOME!!

Dear Mr Mayor,

Since Toledo isn't known for French Fries or Toast. I quess that the next times in need a good scale I'll have to look for an American Scale. Bet it won't be a Toledo Scale. What a boneheaded move. As Mayor you should be in tune with the happenings of your city. Guess you don't realize the cost and logistics for a training exercise involing 200 people. I quess as a polictian you are concrened with cost. I mean it's not your money being wasted. Don't worry when you flood or burn they'll still come and bail you out.
When is your next term?

I applaud the Mayor for not allowing his city to be part of a martial law training exercise intended to train the police to detain US citizens and condition those citizens to adjust to a heavy police and military presence. This has been occurring in hundreds of US citiesalong with the construction of hundreds of FEMA detention camps. This site outlines some of the intended uses of such facilities entitled Civilian Inmate Labor Camps on the Army website http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r210_35.pdf

Mr. Mayor maybe you and your party forgot that it was the Marines who are first to protect you and your precious party. Those who fought so you could be free say one life saved by the practice in your city is worth more than you can imagine. I would love to say what I really feel but it is not as nice as this note. Having spent 13 months in Viet Nam because of you and your party I can only say SEMPER FI because that is what a marine is ALWAYS FAITHFUL TO HIS COUNTRY AND HIS FELLOW mARINES.

Pat McCrory, the mayor of Charlotte, N.C., says that he is unaware of anyone going "door-to-door" to notify his residents about the exercises and that he came away from the experience with an entirely different take on the urban-warfare training that occurred in his city years ago. (1997) According to McCrory, "They basically misled us. They weren't up-front about the extent of the exercise. I had people calling me at home and I could barely hear them for the noise in the background. We literally had residents that were so frightened they were ready to pull out their guns."

(Note: The Mayor of Charlotte, N.C. ordered the military to desist and get out of Charlotte)

"If an accident had happened," the mayor continued, "I would have had a tough time living with myself because I didn't ask enough questions of them when they first came to us about the exercise. Even my own police department and city manager were caught off guard and unaware of the extent of the operations. It took a few minutes before we realized this was the `small exercise' the military had planned. There were between 15 and 20 helicopters hovering above condominium buildings shooting automatic weapons. The noise and disruption were incredible."

Steven Barry, a 24-year veteran of Army Special Forces, is well-acquainted with urban-warfare training and not surprised by the secrecy surrounding it. "The official story put out by the Army is that they're running out of training areas. For the last ten years they've been looking for old rundown buildings in cities for training. They never inform the public about what they're doing (mapping the cities - Radio Frequency Mission Planner) and, contrary to what is said, the gunfire residents are hearing is real. Delta Force doesn't train with blanks.

(Note: In Detroit, Michigan, local government officials afterwards discovered live ammunition left behind in buildings used by the Urban Warfare Marines.)

They rely on bullet traps set up weeks ahead of time to avoid outside penetration of the gunfire. The reason the exercises are secret is because it's Delta Force. They operate outside the hierarchy of command and get their orders from the top. They've been called the president's army for a long time, and they don't move without his blessing."

People that do not fully understand the disingenuous aspects of military actions in American cities are fast to condemm the Mayor.

First Mr. Mayor you made my decision easier, I will never ever do business with any address that has to do with Toledo until you are gone, or recalled.

As a retired member of the U.S Marine Corps and a former member of 1st Battalion 24th Marines, I was shocked that twice in less then one month that city officials from two areas of the country wanted to do battle with my fellow Marines, Mr Mayor how about you and your Communist friends from Berkley take a cruise to some unfriendly country that really just loves Americans, see how long you last.

Phil Zamora GySgt (ret)
USMC 1980-2003

Dear Mr Mayor,
I feel sorry for you. I really can't tell you how to save face on this one. I certainly hope you have no children or grendchildren in the military because they would be highly embarrassed by you. I think I can safely assume you were never in the military or if you were you had a desk job.
The best thing for you would be to resign immediately and get this thing behind you as soon as possible. You can then move to some middle eastern country and hide like roman polansky who raped a 13 year old girl. I don't fear for your safety because you have insulted our bravest and brightest and they can tell you are an idiot and will not harm an idiot as such.
Semper Fidelis! Fair wind and following seas! Au Revoir, Auf Wiedersehen nichts, and good riddance. You have till sundown tomorrow to get lost.
An embarrased Pennsylvanian,
Bill

The Mayor should have welcomed the Marines with open arms, his city would have been safe with the Marines on watch.

Thank you Marc for an excellent well thought out post! This is what deserves to be read NOT those hateful igornant posts I had to wade through to get to this one, yours!!
And by the way, for the poster who thinks we are at war, WE ARE NOT AT WAR!! AND THIS IS NOT WORLD WAR 11!!

Conservative here supports the decision

Facts:

- Our country`s founding fathers knew and stated repeatedly how the single most dangerous entity to our citizens is a federal government run amok with the abuse of powers it was never granted or authorized to utilize.

- I support our brave men and women in uniform and sincerely thank them for their service to this country. Unfortunately, they have been taken advantage of far too frequently by the federal government run amok.

- Support of the troops does not boil down simply to blindly supporting any and all assignments made to those troops by the federal government.

- Federal troops should NOT be in our cities, nor should they be deployed overseas without a Congressional declaration of war.

- Federal troops will do what they are ordered to do, whether that means deploying overseas to fight an ill-advised and unconstitutional war, or if it means pacifying an American city because the politicians ordered as much.

- It is our very own federal government that is the single most dangerous facing America today. Washington cannot be trusted, and thus the federal troops who take their marching orders from Washington are easily as scary as any foreign invaders.

- If there was so much prospective danger to our cities then why the heck aren't our troops here at home protecting our borders instead of imposing "democracy" overseas by force?

- For those "patriots" who fail to understand how far our federal government has now proceeded in violation of the Constitution (which was explicit in its protections for the states from the federal government), you need to a little more reading of history.

- Those same "patriots" who talk about how the federal government should withhold funds from cities which don't allow military deployments (or training) there need to get a grip on the fact that WASHINGTON SHOULD NOT BE USURPING NEARLY THE FUNDS THAT IT DOES TODAY FROM THE NATION'S CITIZENS SO THAT IT CAN EXPLOIT, BRIBE, OR OTHERWISE THREATEN THE STATES (OR CITIES) ABOUT WITHHOLDING THOSE SAME FUNDS.

I've got a sneaking suspicion that most of you "Patriots", whether in uniform or not, if transported back in time to the late 1700`s would be supporting the British Crown questioning the loyalty of our Country's forefathers...

Signed, a registered Republican who rejects a huge portion of what Washington has become.

— Marc S., New Hampshire

If the mayor didn't know the Marines were coming as of the very day of the exercises, how could the whole city have been informed and prepared? (And vice-versa)?

I'm still wondering how these events are conducted, how zones are designated, civilians excluded, etc. Wouldn't more info about that help resolve the controversy?

Also, someone argued the op would involve nothing more than patrolling. Wasn't there some mention of blank ammo fire?

Former Toledoan

There is something even worse then the berkely/Toledo mayor types. There are quote constitutionalists and other paranoid types that think the government is somehow trying some under handed business at every turn. Then they get some disgruntled sailor/soldier to add validity to their stupid causes. We who have served no the types, those who continually question authority at every turn. These people shirk responsibility yet question those that lead. Yep if we listened to you morons we would all be speaking Japanese today. Oh that’s right that was the war FDR started right. You all never study history do the bare minimum and then when you are asked to stand behind a cause you stand behind the wrong one. Yep I’m a sheeple and proud of it. I don’t think the gov is out to get me and that somehow they are desensitizing me to martial law. I have volunteered and volunteer my three children to any cause the voted officials in my country think is a battle worth fighting.
I know that our troops are practicing in real cities because they resemble the electromagnetic signatures of other countries cities and are the best for asymmetric warfare we will need to fight future wars. I do volunteer my city and hope others volunteer theirs to this realistic and VITAL training. We as a military need to transition quicker to this type of warfare as a result of lessons learned in our current war. Yes we are at war and no we are not doing any posse commy tatis acts that you paranoids and clueless constitutionalists are worried about. Study real history and put these training ex’s in context to what nonsense you paranoids are spouting off. So keep a protesting and real Americans will defend your right to do so. My suggestion is though… Take up a faith based initiative and take a mission trip to a really needy country. You can really make a difference, a lot more then the petty protests on US soil. Mayor get a life and please don’t hide behind a constitution that was fought for!!

It's 1pm in the afternoon yet the sun isn't visible in the sky from all the smoke, you.....your wife.....your kids....everything you love in this world lying around you. The sounds of snapping electricity from swinging wires keeps making you jumps as you hunker in a corner, wet, dirty and so scared to move that you hesitate to breath. Your life decisions keep flashing through your mind..one thought keeps making it's way back in..."Why was I so bullheaded?" Just as all hope escapes your mind you see a light through the twisted rubble. Your heart skips a beat, is this real?? Then you hear, "United States Marine Corps, is there anyone here". You yell for them and they return to you and guide you into their safety. As they pull you from the rubble they ask "Mr. Finkbeiner are you ok?" All you can do is stare at them at a loss for words....

That's right Carty, you may dismiss the Marines, but we will never dismiss you. We have sworn an oath to defend this country and it's people to the death. Are we "scary"? You'd better believe it!! The day our enemies are no longer "scared" to hear the Marines are coming is a day our freedom ends and is a day I hope none of us have to see.

What about all those military bases that were closed during the Reagan years? They could practice there...or how 'bout in their own backyards on open military bases. I for one am uncomfortable with heavily armed military personnel milling about in my community. Who could predict what chaos might result? I might feel differently if I could have a 6-shooter strapped to my hip. Of course, if law-abiding citizens carried 6-shooters, we would not need storm troopers in our communities for "protection".

I thought the Mayor of Toledo was the biggest moron until I read the posts below. People who believe that 9/11 didn't happen or terrorism is reality are just clueless and paranoid. No everything we see on TV or hear from the government is 100% true or untainted but evil people are a real. If no one will step forward for what is right horrible things happen to people everyday, ask the poor people of Darfur. I suppose the media is making that up as well or that our government is somehow responsible.
And for those of you who think things are bad here or that our government is horrible travel to some other countries and get a reality check. Your whining butts would be home in a heart beat kissing the ground you are standing on.

Get Used to having marines in your town running things.
this is conditioning so people are used to seeing troops in towns and cities

--On Gun Control--
guns laws only affect law abiding citizen's that hunt and shoot for sport.

Remember Criminals don't follow laws so why make a gun law? Think about it a minute

Ah, nevermind. Go back to watching "THE GAME" and you will be O.K.

I am not sure everyone understands the need to use Men and Women in combate stages. When we were fighting for our country, in the service. People needed us. Now they don't. The time may change again with what is going on int the World today

Perhaps in case of next disaster, there will be a " miscommunication " about deploying the National Guard. This mayor is one giant embarrassment.

To all of you fruitcakes, particularly those in California, who don't believe that the military protects America in one form or another, or believe that everything is a conspiracy, get a grip on reality. That is in particular to you Jason Henderson of California. You sure have a set to say that "9/11 was some sort of scam" or "Pearl Harbor was just one bombing." You obviously don't pay attention to the world we live. And I also include the world outside of your life, because you may be on the plane next time some fanatic decides to blow it up or use it as a flying bomb. If there's something you don't like about this country, as a military veteran, I have ensured you have the right to pack your bags and leave. I hear Al-Qaeda is looking for a good only once-needed volunteers.

1. Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 pertains to the military performing law enforcement functions in the U.S., not urban warfare training.

2. Realistic urban warfare training areas cost millions to build. It is a graet savings to taxpayers to us U.S. cities.

3. Whether you are for or against the training exercise, the mayor and police being this out of thoch with each other is terrible.

4. My children are not afraid of men in uniform. They have seen their father and uncles in uniform to many times. They would probably find watching the exercises exciting.

5. Anyone who believes 9/11 was a scam or fraud is ready for the funny farm.

6. People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. George Orwell.

I say you put the big baboon himself (Carty Fink) in a cage at the zoo and maybe the City Of Toledo will be taken up on their offer for an overnight room, dinner and a day at the zoo.

I applaud Toledo's mayor. I have a real problem with the government desensitizing both U.S. soldiers and citizens to "urban warfare" using citizens - these soldiers' own family and friends - as guinea pig "insurgents". I've seen videos of these training exercises and they are REALLY stopping and searching vehicles, etc. (violating constitutional rights). There are military bases in this country that are towns in themselves; soldiers can carry out such training exercises there. Why are they moving into REAL neighborhoods to do it?

Am I and Toledo's mayor the only ones that see a problem with this? Call us paranoid, but with the legislation and presidential directives that have been created over the past 8 years or so, you can bet this government is preparing to REALLY use troops in this "urban warfare" scenario against the "insurgent" U.S. citizens.

Bravo to the mayor for standing up for the rights and liberties of his people. I wish all politicians would follow suit.

Dear mayor;
What a great concept. We certainly do not want to disturb the homeless!!
I understand the you are also going to tell the police and fire departments to discontinue the use of sirens. (They make such a loud noise)
Maybe stop fire patrols to save gas and reduce traffic. All this driving around learning where fireplugs are and how to get to places. If they need to know if a truck can go down a certain street to get behind a burning high-rise, they can just send someone on foot.

And police patrols - just driving around wasting gas! They could operate with 20% of the vehicles they use now.

This kind of modern thinking would lead to a very quite city - except for the gunfire of all the robberies and gang wars, and the stench from the remains of the burned out buildings.

You could also eliminate the health department. If people eat at a given restaurant and die – the word will get around!

If the Marines need to learn urban tactics they can always get on-the-job training in Iraq.

Yes mayor, I am sure that the Al-Qaeda is in complete accord with you.

The Mayor has lost his mind. A branch of our military has asked their countrymen for help with trying to keep America safe. We ask the members of the military to protect us but we don't want them in our back yard unless we have a problem. This Mayor has never served a minute in the protection of his country. If he had he would understand that training is the key to saving lifes on the front lines. I was not a Marine but I do respect what they are trying to do.

When wacko liberals elect an idiot, they receive exactly what they deserve.
Sorry San Francisco, you have been replaced.

Congrats Toledo.

You are now the idiot capital of the US.......and deservedly so!
(Your citizens must be so proud)!

USMC Veteran
Cocoa, Fl.

Maybe more events like this are needed for America to realize to vote for the MOST QUALIFIED PERSON, instead of the "cool" guy. Why we should elect our leaders with intellegent research on who they really are. This is about to happen in the presidential race. Too many Americans will vote for Obama or Hillary because they just don't understand who they are voting for!! DO YOUR RESEARCH!!! I actually heard someone say they were going to vote for Hillary because she was a woman, or Obama because he is black. AMAZING!!!

I have read the article and comments posted. It is a shame that this country continues to tolerate the kinds of treason that our elected officials permit. This is what happens when a society turns away from our values and national pride. It comes when we stop honoring our country and replace every facit of God and Country with political correctness. We should be aware that downfalls of nations come from just this sort of thinking. Please read the Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire, you will see a similarity. We are heading for the same thing. Maybe it is a time for a change, a radical change; it is time to remove these individuals and return to a true America, a Country for the People, the People of America. We can not be a multi-national population, we must be a nation of one, "Americans" one language, one nation, serving one flag, abiding by the laws of one country; the United States. In history is was said that the "Government should be built out of wood, as it is easier to tear down and rebuild". People who think freedom is free should visit our Military Graves and re-think. Just remember that this Mayor can be recalled or not re-elected, actions is is what makes a great nation.

I hope that every Senator and Representative will see to the de-funding of ANY federal money to Toledo. Let them see how it feels to be on their own - really on their own.

I don't think the mayor is really the one to blame. After all, he represents the people of Detroit Whether Democrat or Republican. Just like every other city and every other elected official, the PEOPLE voted him into office. It the people's fault not his. The same goes for Kennedy and whoever plans to vote McCain into the office. You just don't get it. You get what you pay for.

If former Police Chief Smith really thinks playing war games in downtown Toledo will save any Marine's life, then let him invite them to his property to practice.

Like there isn't plenty of places in Michigan for them to play soldier.

All this fear-driven chest-thumping about protecting our country is nonsense. The US is involved in two undeclared wars waged on countries that did not attack us, and possessed no WMDs. Our illegitimately elected president sends the good troops of the military off to die for US oil company profits, not to protect this country. If the troops were indeed defending the country, they would march on Washington and abolish the unconstitutional Patriot Act for starters, then arrest those who lied us into two costly wars.

Al Qaeda, the stateless scapegoat de jour, was created and funded by the CIA, yet no discussion of the need to re-examine our decades of failed foreign policy. Waging war on foreign countries for the crimes of a handful of criminals makes as much sense as high altitude bombing of Oklahoma City over Tim McVeigh's Federal Building bombings.

Kudos to the Mayor of Toledo: you've shown more cojones than these cowardly, name-calling keyboard warriors smearing you as a "traitor," and the marines whining like babies over having been told "NO!"

So Jason Henderson of California thinks America has never been attacked. Was George Washington defending freedom or were the Redcoats doing so according to Mr. Henderson? I guess he forgot about the War of 1812 in which England attacked America.

Does he not know that in addition to Pearl Harbor that Hickam Field, Wheeler Field, Ford NAS, Bellows Field, and Kaneohe NAS were also attacked? And what of our bases in the Far East that were attacked at the same time? Does he not know that had we not use the atomic bombes Japan would have continued fighting and we could have lost between a half and one million soldiers in an invasion? Does he think we should have allowed Hitler to occupy Europe which would have meant the eventual downfall of England? Is he not aware that Hitler was working on long rang bombers to reach America before WW II broke out and on missiles and atomic weapons to use against the US?

And just where is his proof that 9/11 was some sort of scam? I take it he believes there were no Saudi terrorists and that the passengers of all three planes were taken off and murdered by our government, and that the photos of planes hitting the WSTC and Pentagon were faked.

I have to wonder, is Mr. Henderson from Berkeley? To his last question, yes, it’s you Jason.

Most of the negative comments on this site are from paid goons who are only trying to intimidate you into allowing the Marines to take over your town and lull the citizens into having a police state take over your town. Kudos to you for acting and kicking these government goons out of your town. I hope my mayor does the same if this happens.

Dear Mr. Mayor,
I really hope you understand why we can't come save you today from that mean old terrorist who has a knife to your throat asking you to denounce God and learn to speak only arabic while forcing your wife to wear a burka. We were asked to leave your city.
Sincerely,
The Marines

that marines practicing urban warfare is scary just wait untill we get hit again for real..and then let's see how many people will run to beg for the military to save them....let's not forget we are at war...the reason why those brave men and women are there is so we don't have to fight them here...september 11 2001 need i say more???

Berkeley and now this, what is this country oming too?

The mayor's actions disgust me. I am however almost as disgusted at some of the comments on here. I can not believe people in this country are so disrepectful to the ALL VOLUNTEER MILITARY we have in this country. If it wasn't for the brave men and women that sign up and serve this country , all of you who have such a hatred for our troops would be DRAFTED! I almost wish it would happen to see the cowards all run and hide. At least the troops are brave and have love for AMERICA! I am proud of every soldier that serves. I am proud of all the families that support them and all other Americans that actually support them and their families for all the sacrifices they make for our country. My husband is in Iraq right now. He is a member of the NG and if Toledo or any other city in America has an issue , he will go there and protect them. To all of you that feel such hatred for our troops , don't worry if it comes down to it , my husband as well as any other US Soldier will risk his life to save your scared butt. To all the heroes in our military , come to my city any time , my daughter and I will be there in Red , White and Blue waving the flags for you!!! Thanks for all your bravery !!!!
Kellie Proud Army wife to a brave NG soldier serving in Iraq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

all of you ant-americans that agree with mayor big mouth should pack all of your stuff up and move to(TOLEDO,SPAIN)see how long they would put up with your shananagins.mayor big mouth take your liberal with you.P.S.I served proudly in the U.S.ARMY nam-ear.
GOD BLESS AMERICA AND OUR TROOPS.
FOR GOD & COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
-RICH WOOD SWANTON,OHIO

I did think this country was waking up, but I must reevaluate those hopes. !st what is up with the adaptable USMC? The mayor offered 2 other site outside the city. One wonders what is so important about being amongst the people???? Must they be acclimated???? It seems he biggest mistake was to expect his lawful request to be honored by his chief of police! Why pray tell do we not load a heap of crap on that insubordinate idiot. Maybe he thought the mayor would forget. The mayor tried to give him cover with the alternate locations.
Now I guess with all the flag waving you all for got to study American and world history. No surprise there I am sure most of you are a product of the public schools. Many in this comment post have tried without any obvious success to give you all a primmer on the appropriate passages. So I will not do so here. So please do study or failing that hurry back to your football and stop venting your ignorant drivel here on an honorable man (at least with regard to this issue).

In all sincerity, you're service to this country is GREATLY appreciated. You marines, along with all the other volunteer members in the US armed forces, are a courageous group of Patriots who do our country and our nation's forefathers great honor. This citizen does not have tongue-in-cheek when I make those statements, and I do not take your dedication lightly.

Having said that, I hope you and your brothers in service of our country are taking a long hard look at the what's going on in Washington these days. There is a VERY BIG difference between the politicians who in many respects are selling out, and have sold out, the citizens of the United States and you and your brave comrades in arms who are preparing to defend us whenever necessary.

You guys are extremely well trained and extremely professional. You are a HUGE credit to the nation and the mightiest fighting force our planet has ever seen.

But, and this is a BIG but, one of these days the politicians in Washington who have sold out the citizens to the private bankers, military-industrial complex, medical-industrial complex, and globalists who directly undermine American sovereignty ARE GOING TO ORDER YOU TO PACIFY THE CITIZENS ON AMERICAN SOIL! You guys are going to have a very difficult decision on your hands then. The citizens are getting fed up with the corrupt Washington power-brokers who use their huge amounts of unconstitutionally usurped federal power to heap financial favors upon their lobbyist friends and the elite circles of power, money, and global influence. And the country's economy is quickly descending into ruin due to decades of Washington bleeding the states and the citizens dry.

It is not the great servicemen that many people of the country fear. It is the Washington politicians who will use their power to order you guys to pacify your fellow citizens on our own soil when they are finally cornered by the pissed out people of the country who demand answers for the personal behavior which has served to undermine the country.

When an emergency is determined to exist by the chieftains in Washington who don't want to answer for their disgraceful misdeeds that have terribly damaged our country and they order the best trained, best armed, and most disciplined force on the planet (namely you) to turn on your fellow citizens in the interest of 'national security' will you do so?

As a former U.S. Marine (VietNam era '68 - '70) the only advise I can give a fellow Mayor ... RESIGN NOW !

There is really only one way to get rid of anti-military idiots like the Mayor, vote him out! The real way that true Americans have a say to what goes on in their cities, and for that matter America, is to start studying these candidates while they are running for office and never elect them in. If they happen to slip through the cracks, like most rats do, then don't reelect them! As a former Toledoan I am disgusted with this man and what has happened to my fair city over the years.

I guess all you weak minded "vets" choose to strategically forget that on February 25, 2002 your fellow "trainees" attempted to disarm an off duty North Carolina police officer and got shot for the overwhelming stupidity.

Or how about March 13, 1999 when the obutse feebs (aka the military) instructed Alabama Power cut off power to Anniston, Alabama.

Sad that the author of the article didn't research the bad thing that occur when you have grunts who are trained to obey and not to question.

And to those who imply we should trust our military, sorry but when incidents/places like Abu Ghraib and Gitmo occur/exist it hard to "trust" a military that goes to great lengths to be untrustworthy.

Im glad there are mayors outhere who are aware of what is really happing out in the nation.

Stop Federal aide to Toledo, NOW!!!!!!

NO $$$$ for Toledo!

I knew my prior message would not appear on the comment board because Channel 24 only wants mostly negitive responces to the "Mayor kicks Marines out of Toledo" story. That shows me Channel 24 is bought and paid for just like most of the main stream media, and pushes propragnda to manipulate the and brainwash the public.

Marine's asked the cops not the Mayor. So the Marine are the source of the "communication failure". And I also believe the "miscommunication" was intentional since they had already been told not to come back.

Marines scare people. Really now...what kind of people would that be? I bet they're the same kind of people who would raise hell if something happened in their city and they NEEDED the Marines but there were none to be found. When the bs in Berkely became news I could shrug and say, yeah, it's Berkely, what do you want from the land of nuts & berries...but in Ohio?? Unbelievable. I would rather be protected by a couple of Soldiers, Sailors, Marines or Airmen then by hundreds of idiot politicians like Finkbeiner.

To those who have served, thank you...To those now serving, stay safe...stay strong..serve honorably ...and come home soon. Me and my household will continue to support you.

Proud Mom of a scary Army Operation Iraqi Freedom Vet

I feel bad that the marines traveled four hours and then had to go home, because of a "miscommunication." Wake up and Smell the WMDS (Weapons of Mass Distraction). Our soldiers do need training in Urban Combat. However, do not blame the Mayor of Toledo, for the troops that have died. Blame Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, and the DOD for the lack of training. My concern is with all the blind sheep loudly screaming "Traitor, Unpatriotic, and Anti-Soldier."

"Patriotism is a double-edged sword." It can rally the group around a common goal, such as defending one's country from unprovoked attack. However, it has a nasty habit of leading to fear and hate of all others, not so blessed to be "American" and makes the citizens believe God wills them to invade and occupy another country as a pre-emptive measure. You believe patriotism is screaming to all, "Look at me, I am a patriot, I support the troops, and you don't." And you proudly display the signs of you patriotism and support of the troops by putting a yellow ribbon magnet (that was made in china, by a 6 year, who will die of lead poisoning) on your car. And you will cry out just as loudly, when you wake up and realize that you gave up you rights out of blind, war-mongering, and hate-filled patriotism. And a day will come, sooner, rather than later I fear, when our troops will order to fire upon our citizens standing up for their rights. States have the right to have an armed militia, to prevent a standing army, from being a tool of tyranny and oppression.

The mayor is in charge of the city and has the right to say not in my city. As for, those who say our troops need this training, ask your president why the Military/DoD has yet to build the Urban Combat Training Facility that was approved and funded for in 2003.

If the Marines need Toledo for military training, then they should just march on in and take Toledo and use it as they see fit. Why should they have to ask some dopey Mayor or his pencil pushin' police chief? No sirree, we're talking about the United States military. Who the hell is some city mayor or state governor to tell the federal government what they can and can't do?

These folks need your city to do some war gaming in - you give it to them! They need your building for target practice or your hotel to quarter their troops in - you give it to them! If you don't then they should just take it. Just remember, our military is the best equipped and the best trained in the whole damned world and its for YOUR safety that they do this. God Bless America! Yeah!

Considering the amount of taxpayer money spent per year to train one soldier/marine, it seems more than somewhat ridiculous that the Marine Corps didn't just build a training city in the middle of nowhere in a desert somewhere. Buildings are dirt cheap compared to what the military spends (wastes?) on training. And, hey, Nevada or Arizona look and feel a lot more like the Middle East, too! As to the 'but there are no civillians there to identify and protect' comment, well, what if not civillians are national guardsmen and new yet-untrained recruits? Or the soldiers could just be asked to invite their jingoist families, who would generally be very curious and only too happy to participate!

I admire your decission to stop the war exercise. It surely will save a lot of young American life from killing and being killed.

Blessings in the Lord Jesus

Another idiot. Where do these people come from?????? It looks like this mayor is old enough to remember at least the 2nd World War. These actions are treasonous. I hope Toledo doesn't need any assistance from any of our troops in the future, they just might not show up.

I'm part of the company who tried to train that weekend in Toledo, and reading these posts has shown me a great deal about the thoughts of persons in this nation. One particularly was that we aren't allowed to be deployed in American cities, which is true, but honestly look at the facts. First, we were NOT deployed, we had asked through our standard channels and been granted 6 months ahead of time permission to train in Toledo, we plan 8 months or more ahead in our training. Second, Marines and National Guard CAN and WILL be deployed in times of crisis in cities, because the NG is state militia and the USMC is under direct control of the president. Finally these "War Games" as people put them is an incorrect term. War games involve massive deployment of military assets in conjunction. We were 200 Marines asking to walk around Toledo with blanks and sim rounds (essentially paintballs) with full notification to the public and police. I am thoroughly confused by your unfounded and unbacked statements, I especially am dumbfounded by the person who sited the whatsreallygoingon.com or whatever it was for their complete and total submission to the ramblings of someone who has nothing more constructive to do than to put down people who are trying to make a difference

Our freedom has not been attacked. Pearl Harbor was one bombing, 9/11 was some sort of scam. Did we really need to invade europe and scorch 2 jap cities to protect our freedom??

Is it me or is the tail wagging the dog?

Okay, now I’ve heard everything!
Per Mr. Brian Schwartz, spokesperson for the idiot mayor of Toledo, Ohio, Carty Finkbeiner, “Marines scare people”. (See the quote below.)
What an idiot!
The last I heard, U.S. Marines are supposed to scare people! U.S. Marines train to the maximum limits. They are the best at what they do which is to destroy America’s enemies and that scares people.
In 1918 they scared the be-jeebers out of the German shock troops at Belleau Wood.
In 1942-45 they scared the be-jeebers out of the Japanese from Guadalcanal to Okinawa.
Then came Korea, after World War II our military sat back on it’s laurels, except for the Marine Corps.
The U.S. Marines continued to train and when everything went south in Korea (no pun intended) America called for our Marines.
Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Desert Storm, Somalia and finally Afghanistan and Iraq. Yes, the Marines continue to scare people.
U.S. Marines have learned how to scare the crap out of a certain category of people . . . the enemies of our country.
They’ve learned through intense, practical “train-like-you-fight” training and real world application of those tactics.
Yeah, U.S. Marines scare people but you know what they don’t scare me and I’ll bet they don’t scare very many Americans . . . because they’re our Marines.
If they need a place to train, they can train in my community anytime, just say “when”.
Perhaps Mayor Finkbeiner needs to watch an al-Qaeda video of the faceless cowards sawing the head off a bound and helpless American citizen to understand why our military needs to train so intensely, because if these cowardly terrorists get the opportunity, among the first Americans they’ll murder will be the mayors of our towns and cities, along with their families.
The good mayor needs to give some thought to his San Francisco-ish remark and decision. It may save his life one day.
Donnie Jobe

Again, the commi mayor finkbiner shows his true side. He would be the first in line to cry foul if his city should fall into foreign hands if this nation was attacked. He should gratefully open his arms and embrace the marines, especially if this training should save his constituants or the life of another marine in time of war. Wake up commi mayor.

Mayor -

You have made an unfortunate choice for your City. Now, like it or not people will forever associate your poor judgment with the City of Toledo. During a time when the war is unpopular and the anti-American, anti-military sentiment is high, you may have doomed your City to suffer the consequences of your actions. I for one will remember this, but it won't likely stop me from buying gas in your town, because I understand the difference between taxpayers and the out of touch politicians that sometimes represent them.

I hope you enjoy the freedom that the Marines and other Armed Forces have afforded you. It was given to you freely - in spite of your bad judgment.

In this controversy, I find it interesting that the mayor had no idea the marines were scheduled to have the scheduled exercise until Friday afternoon. There are rapid forms of communication in this day and age. If the citizens are so afraid, why could they not have been informed an exercise was scheduled. I realize there is a need to protect the marines from both citizens and forgeiners if the exercise was made public in advance, but perhaps some method of informing residents in the immediate area could have been made.

I am appalled at the behavior of this city official, especially because of his age that he appears to be. I am a mother of a son in the Military and I can not believe that this guy is an American. This is an example of why it is important to have a leader in political position to be a true Patriot, one who supports the Military, not only with words but knows why we must have the strongest Military in the World. Where was he on 911, or is he one of those Democrats that believe it did not happen. All I can say, every American should do their homework before this November and understand that no one likes war, especially those moms like me, but we do not have a choice but to always be on the offense to protect our country so that our grandchildren may have the same kind of life we have been able to enjoy, freedom and the right to pursue happiness.

Now the country knows what many of us in Northwest Ohio know. The mayor of Toledo, Carty Finkbeiner, is an idiot. Although there is no questioning his love for the City of Toledo, Carty, as we locals lovingly call him, isn't happy unless he's putting his foot in his mouth or behaving as a source of embarrassment to Toledo.

Posse Comitatus Act of 1878) God forbid anyone should read the Bill of Rights. Forget who made this statement, however, it must be someone who has not read the the Bill of Rights. The act forbids taking up are in a war by the government against the CITIZENS (and I would interpret that as those who support our constitution). Of course, some of you liberals, who are doing your best to have the government provide all the other services, free food, free education, free medical care and all the other freebees the GREAT SOCIETY promised will be the most vocal when the MARINES do not come to your aid when you see those free----doms slipping away.After the next election, when it appears you might get those freebees, and the DEMO GOVERNMENT handles your money for GOVMNT (thats how YOU spell it)health care as well as they have handled the social security fund, maybe, just maybe it will dawn on you---but I think not, given your mentality along with the liberal press.

Finally someone in authority who the courage to say NO to the powers-that-be and their plan to commit war on American citizens.

That nonsense has no business on our soil and is an example of how poisened the warmongers have gotten toward their goal of mass control in their war games.

Mayor - you're a great patriot for saying NO to King George and his unlawful troops.

Mayor Finkbeiner,

Your anti-military sentiments were clearly demonstrated to the world with your disgraceful ordering of the Marines out of Toledo. That puts you in the same league as Mayor Bates of Berkeley, who ordered the Marine Recruiters out of that leftist den of wackos! You disgraced not only yourself, but the good people of Toledo!

I'm telling you as a Vietnam Era Veteran, that you shouldn't have pulled the rug out from under the Marines on a training exercise that's been proven to save lives in the field. You went way out of your way to tell the 200 Marines of Company A that their readiness and well-being is no concern of yours.

Oh yeah Mayor, the Marines lay their lives on the line for your ungrateful posterior as well as the rest of us who appreciate their sacrifice!

You're a disgrace!

rochester_veteran
USAF 1974-1979

ANY CITY THAT DISRESPECTS OUR MILITARY SHOULD BE BANNED FROM ALL FEDERAL MONEY. OFFICIALS WHO ACT IN A SHAMEFUL UNAMERICAN WAY SHOULD BE MADE TO STEP DOWN. THIS KIND OF DISGUSTING BEHAVIOR MUST NOT BE TOLERATED.

Considering the mayor's actions towards the Marines,
maybe he ought to apply for the Mayor's Opening that the City Council has in Berkeley, California. Not in my neighborhood! Semper Fi! Hoo Ra!

I am so sick of the right wing neocon attitude of if you don't agree with me, get attacked or get out! What is wrong with you people? Anyone who gives careful consideration to the pro/con of a situation is called unpatriotic. We are told that we should be the ones attacked by terrorists because we deserve it.
Not a very christian attitude. BETTER DEAD THAN RED!
Maybe that paranoia of the past should be looked at more closely because you pseudo-patriotic freaks would gladly return to days of always looking over your shoulder in case the GOVERNMENT is watching. People, think for yourself. You are not a better person or American because you believe everything the GOVERNMENT has spoon fed you.

Thank-you Mr. Mayor The military doesnt need to be practicing in anyones downtown...they own hundreds of thousands of acres on their bases. Let them build their own little downtown and practice there. I think its this governments way of continueing their proganda of fear...that is why we need to get rid of them all. Once again, thank-you Mr. Mayor for standing up to these crazies finally!!!

The city let the neo-nazis in not just once but twice. The last time the n-n's were here the City let them take over the courthouse steps and provided police protection while they spewed their hate.
Now the Mayor kicks out the Marines.
Seems to me the the neo-nazis were treated with a hell of a lot more care and consideration than we did our own U.S. Marine Corps.
I'm a Toledooan and ex-military and I'm ashamed of our Mayor's actions.

Ok so we all know that Carty can come up with some real doozies but this has to take the cake (for this year anyway). I can understand his concern about people getting concerned or scared when they see men in military uniforms walking the streets of downtown Toledo but quite honestly I don't think it would have caused that much concern. Two years ago when they did the same training downtown my son attended the Catholic Club and when I went to pick him up that afternoon and saw 4 men in military uniform and did a double take the men said to me "don't worry miss it is just a training", they also let all of the businesses in the area know about the training (as I am sure they did this time) If Carty was so concerned he should have held an impromptu press conference to let the citizens know what would be going on. Just another "I didn't stop to think" or "I will because I can" situation from our illustrious mayor.

Maybe the Mayor would be more receptive to that other Michigan group currently supporting ubran warefare...CAIR.

I'm hearing alot of degrading of the Mayor, and of the people whom praise his decision. More of the populations are going to have to wake up and see that it is NOT the right of the Military or Federal Government to perform their Martial Law training acts in our cities and on our citizens. Our Fore Father's saw this and is the reason they gave those right's to our locally elected officials at the state level.

You are a seditious pig! Please resign immediately and move to another country. Thank you.

Heaven help people like Toledo's Mayor if there's ever a military need. He'll only find it there then.

Cant want to listen to these same liberals when they or their family/friends are hit the next time this happens.

Liberals always whine the loudest about not enough done to protect after the fact - look at the 9-11 commission and the whining liberals after 9-11

I've read a lot of comments and its clear that people do not have an understanding of the military or the people who are in it. Preparing for martial law? Its nonsense.

There is an importance in going to a foreign site for training. It involves more aspects than just the physical training done there. Leadership needs training dealing with troop movement and the logistics of moving personnel and equipment. Convoying is also some basic training thats needed.

Anyone who has gone to a MOUT training site knows it offers different emphasis on training than going to an actual city has. They did not go to Toledo to learn Toledo's urban enviroment; they went with the hopes of practicing what they learned and learning how to adapt to different surroundings.

The decision to kick the Marines out of Toledo was a wrong one. If I were back in the States now, I would freely give my time to aid in training as such, and I know that I'm not alone on such a thing. Being in the US Army, I still would aid all branches in learning these things. You won't find a combat vet from this recent conflict who would not want their brothers in arms to be prepared as best as possible.

Also, from my perspective, the Marines in Toledo training would bring more confidence in the military. I know if I were to see first hand a paramedic save someone's life, I would have a deeper respect the paramedics. I wouldnt associate them with complaints I had with the Medicare system or the Health Care system in the US, because they aren't responsible for such; they just do their jobs.

I never served in the military. I was too young for Vietnam and too old for later conflicts. It drives me mad every time I see one of our Marines and other servicemen go down in the war. I hate war. God will end all wars soon. Back to my question though. I honestly believe our nation may have perished in the last century if not for the Marines and other services that fought for the defense of our country and the liberty of the entire planet in the great conflict of WWII. Was god with the marines or the third reich? If you can't answer that one, you need a few of your bolts tightened. I wish we didn't need the Marines or the rest of our military but, as long as evil rampages on our planet, we need to answer evil. I can't imagine a prettier sight than the marines coming over the hill when the evil forces of the world are trying to devour us. Stay safe Marines...we can never repay you for your sacrifices. I believe if we could ask God, he would be pleased if we stood up in respect and showed the Marines the HONOR they deserve. As for the mayor, in the words of the old gunny: "What is your major malfunction Numbnuts?"

He should be removed from office. Does he not understand that the USA is at WAR. He has made this city a JOKE to the rest of the country. I am embarassed to call Toledo home.

Sorry folks, but the mayor is right to not allow military exercises for urban warfare in the city. If you don't recognize that the government is exercising for the future scenario of martial law here in the US with house to house patrols to confiscate YOUR weapons and if you don't recognize that YOU are the enemy, then you have been watching too much television and you quite simply brainwashed. What is about to happen here in America will make Nazi Germany look like a small scale operation.

I pray that God would open all your eyes to the real condition of our country and the world and that you would repent and call upon the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sin. Time is short, so do it now.

I'm a Marine corps veteran and completely agree with the mayors decision. The millitary needs to train and move out of sight of the general public

to all of the "america: love it or leave it" folks, guess what? the pacifist, anti-war movement is a part of the citizenry, too. we are a part of the voice of this country, so don't be mad when we speak. the marines conducting practice ops in an inhabited city is just another way that the power structure is attempting to normalize the appearance of war and implement a police state here at home. federal funding for the city of toledo has nothing to do with the marines, as these sort of programs are generally for school lunches and public works/utility projects. its not like the mayor of toledo is turning around and asking for federal funds to open up a marine recruiting station. get over yourselves, war-mongers, we're here as well and we aren't going anywhere.

So - you say you don't like our Men & Women serving in the armed forces, you don't like their recruiting practices, you don't like their military strategies and practices in your state - THEN GET OUT - "AMERICA, LOVE HER OR LEAVE HER" I'll buy ya aLL A 1 way ticket to Iran, Sudan, Venezuela, Russia or China.

We need more General (Black Jack) Pershing's in this world!

"Only 2 Defining Forces ever offered to die for you - Jesus Christ for your Salvation and the American Trooper for your FREEDOM!" don't wait too late to acknowlege it!

I was very disappointed once again with our so called mayor with his recent decision. As we all know it from military, police, fire, boys and girls scouts and so forth BE PREPARED is the first and formost in any group. This makes practice within such a setting a necessity. Also the fact that in the recent past our mayor let a group of demonstrators come back to Toledo after they incited a riot in the city the prior year, not only scaring but injuring many residents along with several police. And yet he felt it his obligation to let them return and demonstrate. Oh, yeah, there were plenty of SCARED people and security was tight. Much of the security were military personnel. My husband included. There he felt it was okay to put people in harms way but in a situation where it might scare someone a bit but no one would be injured HE decided it was not appropriate to allow training to take place. Whose side is this guy on? He has not only misrepresented our community and our country in a horrible way but has shown absolute disrepect for everyone. If terrorists show up tomorrow, I pray that the marines will come and fight for us but I will be first in line to cheer them on when they hand Mr Carty Finkbeiner over to them on a gold platter and tell them to do with him as they will!!!!

Was the mayor not informed in advance that the Marines were coming to his town? Did he only find out about it when they arrived? He should have had ample time to notify the Marines in advance that he did not want them there. Why did he wait until they were in his city to decide to not allow them to use his city for training? Does he not read the local newspaper? Does the city council have any say so in these matters or does the mayor get to do whatever he wants?

Has the city of Toledo never had assistance from the Marines or National Guard when they have had flooding, tornados or other natural disasters?

I would have a real problem voting for anyone to run my city if he thought deaf people should live by the airport, parked in handicap parking (being stupid does not qualify as a handicap) and had to take his dog to work with him.

The Marines in the city for the weekend scare the public? I would be more afraid to live in a city that has twice the crime rate as the national average than having a few Marines in my city for the weekend. On a daily basis - 24/7/365 the 310,000+ population of Toledo has more to fear - their chances are twice as many as other cities of being robbed, raped, murdered, having their house broken into, their possessions and cars stolen, property destroyed by arson. All this by others who LIVE in that city, not someone who comes for a weekend every few years.

Does anyone on here disagreeing with the Mayors actions not understand what was happening?

Why are U.S. soldiers doing training exercises in AMERICAN buildings?
Until Bush gutted the Posse Comitatus, for the last 200yrs, soldiers were not allowed to be involved in POLICE matters and attack Americans...but that's what they're training for.

You people like this? How about them ramming down your doors? You like that? Nothing to hide, do you?

It's people like you that are forfeiting this country.

Frankly, I applaud Mayor Finkbeiner for having the fortitude to stop the 1-24th Marines from playing war in his town. This doesn'ty make him anti-military, anti-American, a terrorist, or any of the other names certain vocal types want to label him in order to prevent honest discussion of his choice of his fellows over military bullying. The military has a place, but it does not (yet) rule & run the USA.

I have an idea - why don't all of you ungrateful anti-American/anti-Military chumps pick the Mayor up on your way OUT of the USA, because you don't deserve the right to be protected by our precious miliary. You're really good at spouting off about our military, but I wonder just how many of you have actually served this Country!

"We all swear to kill our own countrymen if called to do so."

under the penalty of death you do...

There have been no "terrorist" attacks in America since the 911 Inside Job. There have been less people killed since 2005 by terrorism than there has been by bee stings. Any yet, the terrified sheeple posting here are calling the major of a city a traitor because he is doing what he feels is right for the citizens of his city. If bush wasn't a world-class gangster, he might too be at least a little concerned about the citizens he represents. To you terrified sheeple: I suggest hiding under your bed until the Marines come to rescue you from the all-powerful (but dead) Osama. Oh, that's right, under the bed is where "Al Qaeda" is already hiding! Quick! jump back up from under there before "Al Qaeda" gets y...............

Ah, too late. Another sheeple lost to the "Terminally Terrified" Syndrome. And another McCain vote lost.

The reason the training wasn't in GR certainly isn't due to objections from our citizens. From my understanding the weapons division of the 1/24 is actually from toledo. Although most of the 1/24 is from Michigan. It is also my understanding that the building being used is empty. We don't really have too many abandoned building for this type of use in GR. So don't try throwing the citizens of Grand Rapids under the bus for not allowing it, because that is not the case.

Without proper training our military and freedom are at risk. I think you are treating the public like they have never seen a military man in uniform Mr. Major. The Major thinks people will be frightened, has he thought about how frighten everyone will be if terror strikes and our Marines are without the skills they need to protect our citizens. My brother has protected the country as a proud member the the U.S. Marine Corps for 20 years, I think I should tell him the Major of Toledo no longer needs his service.

first I want to know what branch of the service this mayor was in?
then he like the mayor of Berkley should not receive ANY funds from the federal government. and like a country that sponsors terriorism, this town should be on the "drop all aid" list
I for one would never support any town. or state that feels the the training of our troops is not more important than his un american support for his own troops in his own country. this mayor needs to resign and or leave the U.S.
how shameful of person he is.

a proud mother of a wounded soldier who fought for this creep.

Lots of confused people on the comments obviously basing their post on the moronic MSM propaganda instead of the truth look at the truth before you make up your mind and open your mouth. whatreallyhappened.com-
The current Government is nothing more than a mob of traitors that have already used the military in mass murder plots to kill better Americans than they can ever hope to be. Once you accept that as the unvarnished truth, why would you want in the words of Hitler to "Be a good German"?
When you know that this training will be used against American citizens for protesting the perfidy of a fascist dictatorship that lies to its own people so often that only a few know just how cowardly a craven mob of treasonous dogs like Chaney and Bush can be.

Toledo is on the list for a terrist target.Mr Finkbiner did wrong by not letting the Marines practice here.They need the training in a urban settingI really feel that Mr Finkbiner did wrong because if we do get a terror attack that means they won't have the proper training for the national defense.I also think Mr Finkbiner is a failure of a mayor and he ABUSE$S his powers and he should resign.

Malitia, our only defense.
When was the last time that our military "defended" our nation? Were they defending us in Viet Nam? Were the Viet Namese building fleets of tiny fishing boats made of bamboo to come invade us? Let's see Korea...it had to be Korea right? Yes, the North Koreans were planning to eat all of our dogs, wait...that's not right, hmmm. Desert Storm? No that was Kwait's problem...hmm..umm..I give up. It seems they are pretty useless, other than terrorizing nations all over the globe and being international murderers, I don't see much use for them. Even the National Guard isn't here to guard us, they're all in Iraq. If we were ever attacked at home which hasn't happened in over 70 years we would be forced to defend ourselves, so I think your "heros" argument doesn't have much steam. Just another pack of lies being fed to the American public by a run away DOD and Federal Government.

— Shane Gibson, Detroit

Now Shane - First of all you are apparently fogetful. We were attacked on 9/11 and have you considered just WHY it is that the atack prior to that was 70 years ago. Because we keep our military in positions to protect our freedoms throughout the world.

Duh!!

I never served in the military. I was too young for Vietnam and too old for later conflicts. It drives me mad every time I see one of our Marines and other servicemen go down in the war. I hate war. God will end all wars soon. Back to my question though. I honestly believe our nation may have perished in the last century if not for the Marines and other services that fought for the defense of our country and the liberty of the entire planet in the great conflict of WWII. Was god with the marines or the third reich? If you can't answer that one, you need a few of your bolts tightened. I wish we didn't need the Marines or the rest of our military but, as long as evil rampages on our planet, we need to answer evil. I can't imagine a prettier sight than the marines coming over the hill when the evil forces of the world are trying to devour us. Stay safe Marines...we can never repay you for your sacrifices. I believe if we could ask God, he would be pleased if we stood up in respect and showed the Marines the HONOR they deserve. As for the mayor, in the words of the old gunny: "What is your major malfunction Numbnuts?"

Only scared nations flex its muscles to their population, only to keep them in line...Red China, USSR, and North Korea come to mind.

Toledo, ask yourself this question...How does training in Toledo help the fight on terror? Iraq (and everywhere in the Middle East) doesn't look like Middle America. And then, if they ARE training for domestic terror, where is the joint training for ALL Emergency response teams along with these Marines?

I've read a lot of criticism of the Mayor for his stance, but not a lot of people volunteering to have their own towns taken over by weekend warriors. I have trained National Guardists during my military days. Luckily it was on an Army base. Most of these people are not adept at what they are doing and should not be around the public. Read a little folks! Military leaders generally say that Reservists are not ready for prime time. In short, they could be a potential danger to civilians.

Maybe some of you gung-ho neocons or ex-jarheads ought to look back at the problems created by previous visits to Toledo. Maybe you ought to consider the costs that are going to be incurred by the city for these "wargames". Toledo is broke now, the city doesn't need to sheel out money for play acting. Hell, there are even abandoned towns in Michigan that would work fine. I am not impressed with the kneejerk pseudo-patriotism espoused in some of these comments. Get real, Al Queda ain't sending troops to the U.S. They might send lone bombers or something like that. City warfare exercises don't answer that issue, just as carpet bombing didn't solve Nam, or bombing in Afganistan. The morons running the show in DC were all draft dodgers. They don't have a clue as to how to fight conventional or guerilla war. Anyway, I'd rather trust motivated American civilians to protect things than the modern gutted military.

I find it incredible that the Mayor could not communicate with his own police department. This is a waste of taxpayer money. It also hinders our troops from completing needed training.

Have the sheeple commenting here ever heard of the Posse Comitas Act? It states that the U. S. military can NOT be deployed in the United States. Since the bush crime family has taken on dictatorial powers gradually over the last seven years since bush was appointed by the supreme court, America has been turned into the Fourth Reich. There is a very real chance that this training exercise had the precise goal of "war gaming" the takeover of an American city from it's own local authorities. If the power elite cannot install a sycophant like John McCain in Nov., they may choose to declare martial law -- after some faked "attack" -- and "postpone" the elections.

Do the sheeple commenting here REALLY believe that Osama will pop up out of his grave (where he's been since 2002) and invade Toledo with boxcutters after a NORAD standdown? Wake up people, wake up -- before it's too late. Fight against the daily brainwashing you receive from the corporate media. Try to notice blatant lying, deception, and terrorizing tactics; your life may depend on it.

I can sympathize with the people of Toledo. I would think that
could be a tramatic experience, especially for the children.
But the Mayors handling of the situation puts shame on the town and creates controversy to the Nation. Leave it to NBC who has
officially announced there extremist liberal views to the world.
"Huntley&Brinkley,"would be turning in there grave. You have
given up your right to report the news. You can no longer be objective in covering a story, and I think you enjoy the hate
you display with people like Olbermann and Mathews. I miss the
old days when you were the number one News program with
non partisan reporting. I am talking forty years a go.

Here we go again. Local liberal officicals stopping legal actions of our military. The liberals all think they have the right to set standards outside the legal boundaries. If the Mayor does not want the Marines to train for potential problems then the Mayor should not complain if the government cuts back on giving the city funds for the war on terror, nor if there is a local problem requiring the Marines the corp should not be expected to help. We are know in reality, those of us you have served or is serving will alway answer the call of our President and help people like the mayor when the need arises.

You sir iare deplorable and your actions to kick the Marines out of your city shows me that you don't have an ounce of patriotism for your country.

In this day and age of the invasion of ISLAM in its quest to conquer the world your actions are disgusting by any standard as are the actions of Berkley California! I suppose you'll be inviting Muslims to set up prayer and washing facilities in all your public places where they can spew hate and cry Ala Akbar! Surly you must remember the beheadings and stoneings as well as honor killings that these barbarians are noted for?

What war? This country is occupying Iraq for no other reason than to monitor China's influence in the area. OIL is the reason. If the mayor feels that it is not appropriate for urban training, what would his motivation be? Liberals do not hate the military, as the right would have you believe. The belief is that American blood should only be shed when absolutely necessary, not on lies starting an invasion of a sovereign nation.

From everything I've read it sounds like the Mayor is the only one scared of the Marines. Seems like the citizens of Toledo would have been quite welcoming to them, as they have been wil similar past training excercises.

I am a former member of the Grand Rapids based infantry company (1985-1993). During my time we didn't have a need for urban combat training but this type of thing is vital for combat units these days.

Someone asked why Toledo and not in their home city of GR. Well first is that GR doesn't have any abandonded multi-story buildings much less a group of them for the Marines to conduct training. Second is familiarity. A large portion of the GR based unit comes from around the GR area and are too familiar with the area. Part of making the training realistic is putting the Marines in an area with which they are not entirely familiar. Third, Perrysburg, OH, a suburb of Toledo, is home to a company of Marines from the same batallion.

For all of you supporting the mayor on this issue (and the mayor himself), I have two quotes from history I would like to bring to your attention.

Sic vis pacem parrabellum. latin for:
If you want peace, prepare for war.

Diplomats are just as essential in starting a war as soldiers (and marines) are in finishing it.
-Will Rogers

We need to train to do our job. You can't do urban training in a state park or your familar back yard.

We are the extension of our nation's will. Not the policy makers or leaders. The ablity decide foreign policy is not ours, it is in the politician and the voters that put him there.

If you disagree with our nations policies and leadership, you are able to exercise free speech to voice your displeasure.

I will die to protect that.

The press is free to speculate (sometimes to the detriment of the nation) and report on almost anything.

I will die to protect that.

If you spit on my brothers and sisters in the military for the tremendous sacrifices and personal hardships they face, you will have my scorn.

but I will die to protect you and yours

United States Marine

By reading some of these comments,I am dumbfounded at the collective ignorance. There are constitutional laws against the federal military operating against civilians(Posse Comitatus Act of 1878) God forbid anyone should read the Bill of Rights also. You think these guys are there to protect you,you are living an illusion

Urban warfare training needs to be as realistic as possible to cut down on unwanted fatalities. Whether it is for Bagdad, Mosul or New Orleans. People who are going about their everyday business have a look and feel that is different than trained soldiers impersonating them. THey are not the enemy and are not targets. THerefore you must train to not target them or put thme in harm's way unneccesarily.

THe National Guard must train for civil unrest following a natural disaster. I have read of certain sections of New Orleans that could not be entered with relief supplies because of the gunfire and anarchy. National Gurad troops exist to quell those incidents at the request of the Governor. They need training for this purpose. If a city offers the chance to simulate several of these environments, then you utilize it with coordination the local authorities. The marines did this.

What yo uhave here is some spoiled brat of a politician wanting his way and being an opponent of war. He is taking the mantle of authority givne him by the citizens of Toledo and using it for his own agenda. Obviously, he knows what is best for us.
While I was never in the marines, I do remeber from football that the best wya to prepare for the game was to practice against what you expected to see from your opponents. FOr all you people that believe this exercise is the beginning of martial law and you are being set up to get used to it, remember the Jihadists do not ask to come to your city and they do not allow elections by infidels.

Don't cry, Mayor, when you need the Marines help in the future. Make sure your city cops know what to do in an emergency attack. What will the citizens of your city do if it is attacked? Are they not going to be "frightened" by men in uniforms with guns? Are your citizens afraid of the police also? Not much difference there. Major, you are an i-d-i-o-t.

The break down in communitcation aluded to by the mayor occured between his own ears! The marines are welcome to use my backyard for training if needed. I was US Army during the Vietnam Era - Go Jarheads!

When was the last time that our military "defended" our nation? Were they defending us in Viet Nam? Were the Viet Namese building fleets of tiny fishing boats made of bamboo to come invade us? Let's see Korea...it had to be Korea right? Yes, the North Koreans were planning to eat all of our dogs, wait...that's not right, hmmm. Desert Storm? No that was Kwait's problem...hmm..umm..I give up. It seems they are pretty useless, other than terrorizing nations all over the globe and being international murderers, I don't see much use for them. Even the National Guard isn't here to guard us, they're all in Iraq. If we were ever attacked at home which hasn't happened in over 70 years we would be forced to defend ourselves, so I think your "heros" argument doesn't have much steam. Just another pack of lies being fed to the American public by a run away DOD and Federal Government.

Dear Mayor Carty Finkbeiner,

I've been debating on writing, or not, but of course I have to.

I own a group of businesses that have been growing and I've considered expansion into your area. I've been in Toledo, and surrounding areas, scooping out the opportunity here and trying to make a decision on whether or not to open a branch of my business in the Toledo area.
I've been on the fence for a few weeks in my decision making, but I've made it this morning after a lot of soul searching.

I won't.

Why? Because I don't think we want to do business in a city that is lead by a man that has a problem with the military. Clearly you don't support our men/women in uniform and I surely can't support a business in a city where the leadership is anti-military. And to think you have a problem with 200 men and women doing a few urban warfare exercises in an abandoned building is beyond words on my part. This is indicative of what is wrong with America. Consider what would happen if EVERY city in America did what you just did (and what Berkley California just did). Our military would not get to train in urban battle training (a common need as they are in cities fighting for YOUR freedoms to express yourself anyway you want to)

Needless to say, I'm very disappointed. Yet I can't, in all good conscience, expand to a city that has a leadership that seems somewhat anti-military, and in a way, anti-American.

On to Cincinnati!

Paul Collins
President and CEO Select Environmental Services

Mayor (FINKS) actions are a slap in the face of every one that has put on a uniform for this great nation and have sworn to defend it. I`ts time to send Carty a message he will understand. To all VETERENS organazations,VETERENS,FAMILYS OF ALL SOLDIERS FRIENDS,DADS,MOMS,BROTHERS,SISTERS,COUSINS,WIFES,CHILDREN,GRANDPARENTS.,MONEY TALKS.,BOYCOTT EVERY BUSINESS INSIDE THE TOLEDO CITY LIMITS! CUTOFF CARTYS PAYCHECK UNTIL HE IS RUN OUT OF OFFICE/TOWN. I WATCHED MY TWO OLDEST SONS GO TO WAR TO KEEP PEOPLE LIKE (MR. FINK)SAFE IN THIS LAND OF THE FREE! I THANK GOD THEY BOTH CAME BACK TO ME, MY OLDEST COMPLETED HIS TOUR,( ARMY RESERVE,COMBAT ENGINEERS,MY OTHER SON ,TOUR CUT SHORT,DUE TO A ROADSIDE BOMB,MOSUL,SEPT. (03),95% HEARING LOSS,RIGHT ELBOW BLOWN OFF, (101 st AIRBORNE AIR ASSAULT).(BOMBERS WERE CAUGHT-SENT STRAIGHT TO ALLAH.) LETS SEND CARTY AND HIS LIMO TO BAGHDAD,AND LET HIM BE NUMBER 1 IN A CONVEY WITH A SLINGSHOT IN HIS HAND.!SEE HOW WELL HE CAN DO IN A ALL VOLLENTIER MILITARY.!!!!!

I was in the Marines in Toledo for 6 years back in the 70's & we utilized many state parks etc. during those years. My question, with the price of diesel being what it is, why didn't the reserve unit just stay in Grand Rapids & do the same thing they could do in downtown Toledo. Was it because they were not wanted in their own city, home of former President Gerald Ford? You mean that Grand Rapids doesn't have the same capabilities as Toledo? Give me a break!! Yes, Carty could have done it in a more political correct manner, but that's Carty.

Jim

The mayor is wrong, wrong, wrong. The state of the world today He should be at least tolerant of an effort to properly train servicemen. He would welcome them with open arms if God Forbid Toledo suffered a catastrophe such as happened in New York.
During WW2 one of the biggest handicaps our servicemen had in the pacific was their lack of jungle fighting training. This whole country is at war. You are entitled to disagree, however that does not mean because of your personal feelings that you have the right to deprive your citizens of every opportunity to be prepared in case the worst should ever happen. Too many present politicians don't think they were elected to serve the best interest of their constituents, just their own personal narcistic self. If you don't think that the radical islamist would hesitate for one minute to attack Toledo if it was possible that they wouldn't jump at the opportunity. All I can say is you can critisize this country all you want but it was the patriotism and courage shown by these young people that kept you from speaking german today. Yes this is a different kind of war probably with far more serious consequences to every one of us if we take the attitude that many countries before WW2. I also believe in pasivisim when it can work or if it means just swallowing ones pride for a bit but don't fool yourself for one minute this is not a situation that could be solved that easily.

After reading all the articles and watching this story on CNN, I believe that Mayor Carty Finkbeiner should be forced to step down as an official of Toledo Ohio. Obviously, he does not respect the FACT that America IS AT WAR, nor does his actions reflect support of our military. No amount of apologies will correct the impression that the whole nation now has of this man, his politics and his city. I currently have TWO grandsons serving with the Army and Marine Corps in Iraq and find the actions of this mayor to be totally objectionable. He would be the first one to call "HELP" from the Marines should anyone threaten his city or himself. All I can feel and say is: "SHAME ON HIM". How UNPATRIOTIC of him. Remove him from his office...we do not need his type of LEADERSHIP???? in our cities when we are facing so many difficulties and need all the support for our fighting men and women all over the world. Our military overseas do hear and read what is going on here in the states...how dreadful that they are being demoralized by such actions and statements as this "UNAMERICAN" Politican...SHAME ON HIM.
Sincerely,
M Sanders
TN

There just ain't not reason that those Michigan troops ain't oughta train in Toledo. Toledo's just about as close a place to Baghdad as we got here as far as terrain and set up of the city. These dumb lie-berals gotta understand that we gotta train our troops to over here to fight over there so we don't gotta train out troops *there* to fight terror over *here*. Why is that so dang hard to understand?!

Stop hating America, Toledo, or go back to Russia!

God is Love!
BBN
www.billybobneck.com

I hope that the citizens of Toledo recall this traitor or vote him out of office in their next election.

This is even worse than what Berkeley did. This traitor is standing in the way of our Marines training so they can protect this country.

What if this country was invaded? What good will our troops do if they have no urban warfare training!?

God Bless the Marine Corps.

Once again you have let your self-righteous ego, bring national embarrassment to your office and the city as a whole!

you haven't done anything this stupid since you made the move deaf people to the airport, comment.

With Carty being a the most egotistic, self absorbed, power mad, joke of a Mayor,
I just knew he would try defend his stupidity.
What a moron. Google "Toledo mayor" to see what the entire nation thinks of this.
Hey, maybe we can move the blind people downtown.

Freedom isn't Free
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dane Williams
dane@woh.rr.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I will be contacting my senators to vote against any federal funding for the City of Toledo. What you did is unpardonable. You are deplorable. I am a vet and my son is on his third tour of duty in the battle against terrorism. He is protecting the likes of you and the anti-Americans in Berkley, California. You are all beneath contempt.

Good for the Mayor to stand up for his town. The federal government and military are out of control. Let them go train in Iraq and waste more billions.

Dude's name is 'Carty Finkbeiner'. He probably got elected by young libs who voted for him on a goof because of his ridiculous name.

If this unit is from Grand Rapids, MI., why can't they practice in downtown Grand Rapids ?

Mr Mayor,

You enjoy the freedoms that our constitution provides but yet you would deny training to the very people who support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America, against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Throughout this countries history men and woman of our armed forces have always given 110% and some have paid the ultimate sacrifice in defense of our freedoms.

Training in a setting that is as close to the real thing is an important to hone skills and techniques that may not be present in a mock up environment.

It seems that you loath the Marines and our military but yet you can sit there in comfort, under the blanket of protection they provide. Your actions are despicable.

God Bless America. God Bless the United States Marine Corps....The Worlds 911.

As a recently retired Marine, and fellow Ohioan, I am ashamed of how my fellow Buckeye has behaved. I am ashamed of being from Ohio at this point and I hope the citizens of Toledo reward Carty the "Fink"biener on the next election day. But--he could run for the mayor of Berkley, CA!

THE POLICE STATE IS COMING!!!!!!!!
REPENT, THE END IS NEAR!!!!!!!!!!!

FEMA CONCENTRATION CAMPS ARE HERE!!!!!!

http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/fema.htm

Martial law exercise? Nonsense! We are at WAR!
Don’t know why some folks seem to stick their head in the sand (or is it the mall?) and deny that fact.
During WW II the country was behind their defenders, doing all they could to sacrifice and support the efforts to help “get the job done” so we could come home. We fight the war to protect our shores as much now as then. FYI we fought in Africa, and Italy and….well, it was the aggressive Germans we were after, and they were in other territories. You go where the enemy is operating – period.
If our military needs training in certain types of cities, they need training in cities! They must have picked Toledo for a reason! This exercise was no surprise – newspapers carried the fact et al, and it’s something that has been done several times in the past.
I believe the vast majority of the good people of Toledo welcome the chance to help out their honorable volunteer military defenders of freedom.
I suspect the good people of Toledo will in no uncertain terms let their mayor know their desires and he will, as a representative of the people, heed that desire to support the troops until the job is done. Come on folks – let them get their training so they can get the job done and come home.
B D Finch
Los Angeles, California

You know Toledo is on Lake Erie and if the Canadians ever were to invade Toledo, the mayor could call on the Berkeley City Council to defend them! Works for me!

Here's the official RECALL CARTY website:

recallcarty.com

Time to get rid of this bum.

Folks, it's time to fire up the old "Recall Carty" efforts. Mayor RatFink has made Toledo a national joke once too often!

Anyone who says that Marines train to kill their own citizens is a flat out liar. Typical training for Marines consist of such things as; conduct an opposed amphibious landing, evacuate American citizens from foreign countries, rescue hostages, distribute aid and assistance after natural disasters, fight against guerilla groups in an urban setting WITHOUT inflicting civilian casualties, etc.

To all the conspiracy theorists. These are Marines we are talking about and they take oath to defend the Constitution seriously. The only way you will see any government rip up the Constitution and put tanks in the street to oppress its citizens will be over the cold dead body of these same Marines.

What in the world are you doing? Do you not remember that freedom isn't free? How dare you kick out the Marines! The Armed Forces must train in urban areas in order to be effective in a real situation. For example: war, domestic terrorism, counter-terrorism etc. Apparently the whole city was informed about this event by the Police Department. I know that the Marines training saves lives. My son deployed with them as a corpsman. Get on board to support our military. You can hate the war but don't hate the soldier. And remember... there is a price for freedom.

And will the citizens of Toledo be afraid to ask for military assistance when they have a snowstorm?

There is a reason why they haven't taught 'real' American history in the public schools for quite some time. Look no further than occasions just like this.

Apparently this Mayor got an eduction in American Heritage somewhere along the way.

Do the people beating their chests felling good about themselves know anything about The Posse Comitatus Act? I bet this 'American' mayor does.

Ever wonder why so many people from places where the police and military exercise in THEIR cities come to America?

Think about it.

http://www.dojgov.net/posse_comitatus_act.htm

Apparently, a lot of you that are supporting Carty have no knowledge of what had happened here.
1. The Marines werent going into Toledo to "invade"the town and declare Martial Law as so many of you seem to think. They were going to Toledo to practice Urban Warfare, and had done so previously on other occasions, with permission of the city, I might add.
2. You worry about conspiracies, you been drinking too much Koolaid served up by the likes of MoveOn.Org, CodePink, and other radical left wing elements of the Democrat party. Your paranoia is totally misplaced.
3. I saw statements about Citizens Constitutional Rights being stepped on by the current administration, however, with all your gasbag generalizations, I would like to know of one American Citizen whos rights have been stepped on, especially concerning Homeland Security. Its not the Republicans and Conservatives that want to use the 2nd Amendment for toilet paper. Study your history and see who has actually done the encrouching on Citizens Rights, starting with Franklin Roosevelt with the Japanese Citizens of America during WW2. Andrew Jackson, another fine supporter of Civil Rights was the one that killed many of the Cherokee Nation, forcing them to walk to Oklahoma on the Trail of Tears.
4.What you uneducated morons seem to not understand is that we are in a global war against an enemy that wants to conquer the world and force Shiria Law on every existing person still alive, after they get done murdering innocent people with IAD's and Suicide Bombs. We didnt start the war, this war has been going on since about 550AD.
5.What your problem is, that you believe everthing the incompetent drive by media and idiots like Carty tell you, because you dont have sense enough to really observe for yourself, for one thing or you just have stupid blind hatred for the current adminstration because he beat a Lieing cheater in 2000 and a low life that committed Treason in 2004, and these are your heros.
6. I would think that there are better places to train than in a down town area of a thriving metropolis as well, but fore some reason, it worked well in the past, so the Marines were given permission to do so again.
7. If Carty was so adamently against the Marines training in Toledo, he should have notified the Marines last year, after they had completed thier training, that they would not be welcome back.
8.Where he shows that he is a total fool and a coward in his own, is that he didnt even bother to do notify the Marines in advance that they couldnt come back, and then instead of telling them himself, he sends a lacky, no doubt while hiding under a desk somewhere.
9.Many of you people disgust me. I want to know who you are going to cry to for protection when some terrorist screaming"Allah Akbar" is kicking in your door at 3 AM, with intent to do you grave bodily harm. Too late for you then crybaby. I will be too busy defending my own, and I would imagine so will the Marines.
SFC Kenneth Keith USA IN Ret

And the next time your city is in peril, I hope they would say NO to you (especially you City Government Officials and NOT the innocent victims of your tirade) if into the future you are in need of their services!

May the tune of the Marine Corp Hymn give you NIGHTMARES as you attempt to sleep!

From the Halls of Montezuma
To the shores of Tripoli
We fight our country's battles
In the air, on land and sea
First to fight for right and freedom
And to keep our honor clean;
We are proud to claim the title
Of United States Marine.

Our flag's unfurled to every breeze
From dawn to setting sun;
We have fought in every clime and place
Where we could take a gun.
In the snow of far-off Northern lands
And in sunny tropic scenes;
You will find us always on the job --
The United States Marines.

Here's health to you and to our Corps
Which we are proud to serve;
In many a strife we've fought for life
And never lost our nerve.
If the Army and the Navy
Ever look on Heaven's scenes,
They will find the streets are guarded
By United States Marines.

(P.S. to you traitors who have turned against the Marines, it's too bad your property wasn't destroyed by the wrath of recent weather instead of decent, American loving citizens!!!)

Isn't it interesting that the mayor's website is down? I wonder why!

We fail to understand how any American could deny assistance to America's sons and daughters. It is an absolute disgrace. This mayor and all his lacky supporters should be put on notice that if there is ever need for troops in Toledo, they should't hold their breath. These are the men and women who lay down their lives for us. God forbid you ever need their help. These are the people who protect the freedoms you so thoroughly enjoy. Those who think like your mayor are un-American. Shame on you.

Once again our city has made the National News. Many cities have problems, but there is no other city that has Mayor Carty over it. HE IS A JOKE! He has once again managed to embrass the city. He needs to apologize to the Marines for his actions of stupidity. Then he needs to step down. I didn't vote for him anyway.

Just wondering if the Marines were coming to your city for training and your citizens weren't notified ahead of time if it would scare you? Carty is the one responsible for the safety of the citizens of Toledo, with the police department. Not the police department in charge.
Seems to me a lack of communication. Not anything about being unpatriotic...please lighten up on the citizens of Toledo. You haven't even heard the whole story yet. I'm not a big fan of Carty, but it seems to me that the media is only giving the side of the story that makes Carty and Toledo look bad. Same old, same old...
I believe had the right chain of communication been followed most of you would have never even heard of the Marines training here. Most didn't even know it was going to happen until it didn't happen! Then it just gets turned into another negative story about Toledo.
Maybe you should all check with your local officials to see if they are holding any live training exercises in the city that you live and work. You may be surprised what you find out; your elected officials are doing the same thing, but it's not spread all over the news! They follow the 'proper' channels to keep the military out of your cities! Carty doesn't always go about things the right way; but I believe in him protecting & serving his city.

It is time the american people stood up and brought these people to justice. What that mayor did was unpatriotic and dispicable. When the taliban strikes his fair city he will probably blame the military. What an idiot.

That TRAITOROUS IDIOT mayor is making a FOOL out of all of us in Toledo, worldwide!!!!!
He needs to IMMEDIATELY go to Grand Rapids and apologize to OUR HEROES PUBLICLY!!!!!!!!!!
I supported him in the past, but I will campaign AGAINST him VIGOROUSLY, if he doesn't do what needs to be done!!!! APOLOGIZE to OUR HEROES, Us the citizens of Toledo and the state!!!! He has DISGRACED ALL OF US, by his TREASONOUS STUPIDITY!!!!!

There are plenty of other places to train. Stop acting like there are not all you warmongers, eager to send troops off to die for lies- they are NOT dying for your nation's protection. To think otherwise is delusional.

I am in a military family as well as a criminal justice professional and we approve of the mayor's actions-too bad others don't care as much for their citizens enough to say ENOUGH!

I think he should apologize to all the people in toledo plus all the people in the U.S.A.because this went nation wide alsoapologize to the (MARINE CORPS
AND ALL OUR OTHER TROOPS,)PAY BACK THE MARINE CORPS OUT OF HIS OWN POCKET BECAUSE HE KNEW THEY WERE COMING.DON'T GIVE ME THIS EXCUSE THAT HE DIDN'T KNOW.I THINK THAT HE SHOULD RESIGN, EVERY TIME HE OPENS HIS MOUTH,HE EMBARRASES EVERYONE.NOBODY IS GOING TO FORGET THIS EVEN IF HE APOLOGIZES.HE HAS TAKEN TOLEDO DOWN.
RICH.

What has gotten into these idiotic Mayors??? First, we get the nut case from Berkley and now from Toledo!!
Maybe we should just do away with Mayors and invite the Marines to come in and run out cities!!!! My deepest sympathy to the citizens of Toledo.

These city councels and Mayors have lost their minds in asking that the Marines or any military branch stop their practicing or recruiting. All federal funding to the cities involved now or future should be taken away and if the state approves then take the federal funding from the state.

These men are standing in the Gap between us and those that want to take away our freedom and watch us die.

This mayor has helped to stop the spread of fascism in America that is being perpetuated by the liberals and conservatives. First they took away habeas corpus, then the fourth amendment, now with hr 9155, the first amendment will be removed. When will some of these Americans care? This mayor has stopped the decline of America into martial law. I applaud his courage and bravery. The war on terror is a fraud. go to ae911truth.org and google operation mockingbird. educate yourself. protect America!

Do the posters against the mayor truly understand what has happened to this country?
This country has been taken over by fascist maniacs, who have sent many of our youth to their death for the profit of their corporate friends.
Directive 51 gives the president the power to grant marshal law in the event of an 'emergency', this is what these Marines are training for, containment of the American populace. To disarm the public against the 2nd amendment. Why are Americans so brainwashed into violence and militaristic behaviour?
Maybe this mayor understands this, the rest do not, how unfortunate.
America is nothing more than an imperialist bully using our military to fight so Americans can selfishly consume the worlds resources. Ask some of the Marines how they like being exposed to depleted uranium being illegally used by the Ziopentagonians. Ask them how it feels butchering innocent men, women and children. The marines and the rest of the fighting military have been destroyed. Why do we give Israel 30 billion in aid when we have over 200,000 vets on the street, this is what you should be in an uproar over.

I grew up in Mercer and Van Wert County, so I have spent many good tmes in Toledo. Given that, however,
it has been my impression that over time, Toledo has deteriorated to the point that not even the Marines can save it

I am glad the Marines went to Grand Rapids to practice their two-city block combat training.

Even so, should Toledo ever need the Marines to come in and quell a civil unrest situation, no doubt if
they are sent, then they will come, and if they do come, they will do as ordered, to the best of their abilities, and if need be, unto their death!

Semper Fi! Toledo.

And Oh Yes, why not form up a Ballot Issue Political Action committee, and recall the Mayor. Toledo deserves better!

I guess he is not interested in getting any feedback about his decision to kick the legs out from under our soldiers.

Just pathetic.

The mayor so anti-american, he should go to a country that is loves and live there. He does not belong in the United States of America and especially in a position of Mayor of a city. The people of Toledo should tar and feather him and carry him out of the city on a rail.

I agree with Mayor Carty!
I, personally, would not want to be going about my weekend business and drive into a mock-combat zone with my children in the car. I had no idea this was planned. And from time to time we drive through downtown to get to the art museum, ball park or just to get across the river. If we were to happen upon military personnel and vehicles, I would feel my safety is in danger. Who knows what could be happening? Really, how would my young children know they aren't real bullets? or that there's not a hostage situtation or terrorist attack going on right in front of us?
And what's wrong with the deaf living near the airport? They can't HEAR the planes!!!
Thank you, Carty!

I know that isn't very politically correct, but if U.S. Troops were defending freedom from the tyranny of the Patriot Acts, The Military Commission Acts, The Homegrown Domestic Terrorist Acts, if they were hunting down Osama Bin Laden in Pakistan or hunting down the Anthrax Terrorist in the U.S. Homeland, then I would support the Troops. The genocide in Iraq is a war crime. Support the Troops, no thanks.

Now we have a left coast type as Mayor of Toledo (In OHIO, for Petes sakes). Where do these Grapenut flakes all come from?
Smarty Carty needs to apologise to the US Marine Corps and resign.

Now we have a left coast type as Mayor of Toledo (In OHIO, for Petes sakes). Where do these Grapenut flakes all come from?
Smarty Carty needs to apologise to the US Marine Corps and resign.

Why is everbody always picking on me :( I do have feelings you know.

I'm comin' for you Carty!!

Let's just hope that Toledo never needs the National Guard! I'm appaled that a mayor in the United States of America would be so blatant about showing his ignorance! Shame on him!

congratulations to mayor finkbeiner for not surrendering to the usmc. certainly, the marines need training in various settings, but really, toledo, oh? america's cities are not playgrounds for our military. the government has facilities that are more appropriate for training our soldiers. the citizens of the united states don't need practice being terrorized by stormtroopers.

The stupidity of this mayor is just breath taking. Unfortunately, judging from some of the comments, this mayor is not alone in his sentiments.

You know what those marines did when they returned to whereever? It says they 'trained' but I can guarantee you they didn't. It takes quite some effort to get all your ducks in a row for a training exercise. You don't just wave your magic wand and create a training exercise out of thin air. This mayor's decision will have a direct impact on the combat readiness of these soldiers who may soon be deployed in combat.

So much for 'supporting the troops.' He just made it more like some won't come back alive.

A few years ago our local National Guard unit was deployed to Iraq. Prior to their deployment, it was a common sight to see them training for urban warfare in our local communities. Even though they were deployed to a dangerous part of Bagdad, they suffered not a single casualty.

When they came back, they held a community slide show and told the community the story of their deployment. They credited their lack of casualties specifically to their training which they were able to perform in their home communities. They also said that other National Guard units from other areas of the country who did not enjoy the same level of community support suffured for it.

Some of you people just don't understand that this is a dangerous world we live in with people out their spend their every waking moment figuring out how to kill us. And this jerk from Toledo is making it easier for them.

Carty needs to be impeached! Where is the gentleman that was trying to have him relinquished from his duties for all the other poor decisions he has made? We don't need a dictator, we need a smart individual who knows how to work with others as a team. He must not like the Marines because they know how to work as a team, he can't relate to them. It's about time the citizens of this once exceptional city vote for change. That change is not another democrat in office. I was looking forward to these brave men and women training in our city. Yes, I knew they were coming and no, I wasn't afraid. I was excited. All the people who were at the RV show at the Seagate Center downtown would have been clapping for the Marines and saying Thank you for your service. I would have been so proud to say that I was from Toledo and now, I am embarrassed once again.

Mr. (Hugo Chaves) Finkbinder needs to gom to Grand Rapids Mi.and appoligize to each and every Marine.
He is why people from this city will admit it.

Now we have a left coast type as Mayor of Toledo (In OHIO, for Petes sakes). Where do these Grapenut flakes all come from?
Smarty Carty needs to apologise to the US Marine Corps and resign.

Doesn't any one find it strange that they picked Toledo to hold training instead of a closer Michigan city and save some expence? I mean right from the very beginning of this type of training so I don't hear the excuse that it was held there before with no problems.

The Almighty Carty thinks he's a Dictator rather than the Mayor! His Police Chief knew about the plan for the training exercise and it was published in the local paper...but because Carty wasn't in charge of the plan, he ended it just as it got started. Will the city reimburse the Marines for the money and time they wasted because of this abomination?

I would hope that the mayor and those who think what he what did was right, would take a tour of the military cemetaries through out the world, how many perious soldier lay at the bottom of the oceans, go visit the hospitals,the veterans retirement centers, if it weren't for those sweet brave men and women who died thourgh the wawr I would say we would probably be speaking german or japanese now, the young brave souls never knew the life of being a senior citizen, they would scratch their heads and say I fought for people who hate me and the military, so when the times come to those who hate the soldiers, why don't you all go out running with your olive branches and see what happens, to those who call marines bullies, well those bullies are in everyday life and I dare say that the mayor is a bully, to those who say we have a police state, wht would happen to you if you lived in Russia or cuba and made those remarks, you would be thrown in prison, and being an american you might wonder where are the marines to save me, oh yes you hate them so you are on your own, we are loosing our senior veterans everyday by the thousands, and those who cheer, down with the military should have walked in their combat boots for one hour. and then maybe the grippers, the anti military might have some apperication for their supreme scarifices, you should be ashamed and thank god for our proud men and women of the military, to those who hate them, you will regret those remarks one day proud to say I love the men and women of the military, to the so called mayor of toledo I hope you read this comment because you are the stuff that communists are made of

It's a sad day in America when people rally to see troops training to round up it's citizens and blatantly ignore a Patriotic move by a American Mayor.

Bravo Mayor for having the courage to stand up to these encroachments on our liberties!

"None are so hopeless enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free."

Mr Mayor,
You say you are so concerned that our men and women are dying in Iraq but you don't allow the kind of training that would help keep them alive.
I don't want my tax dollars going to a city that is not grateful to those who fought and died so you can be free to be stupid. I certainly hope that your city is included in the DeMint bill before Congress to stop any earmarks you are set to receive. Generations have fought to keep this country free and so you could receive any earmarks or federal aid in American dollars instead of Rubles, DM, Euro, dinar, rial, franc, peso, etc.
I understand that Toledo is a pretty depressed city, let's see how well you survive without the help of the government and citizens of that government you condemn.

My only two contacts with Marines were the biggest bully in my school who went on to join the Marines and the Marine, who in the back seat of my taxicab at 1am on a 25 mile trip through the dark to his base regaled me with stories about all the taxicab drivers who'd been assaulted and found dead on his base. So my gut feelings about them are not positive.

To call them "heroes" and "defenders of our freedoms" seems a pretty big stretch. With the exception of WW2, in my opinion all of America's wars have been aggressive attacks on sovereign nations and peoples and have done much more to threaten our freedoms than defend them, an opinion that's been strongly bolstered by Iraq aggression, where billions of people throughout the world now hate and fear the United States.

It surprises me that conservatives, who generally tend to favor personal responsibility, when it comes to killer cops and grunts, can argue that they're just young kids who didn't know what they were signing up for, that they just follow orders, etc., etc. My feeling is that people who go to strange lands and kill civilians or soldiers who are defending themselves and their countries should have some sort of responsibility for their actions.

As for practicing crowd control in downtown Toledo, hey, don't get me started!

Somehow the name Finkbeiner fits...A rat fink is what he is. This is the kind of person that when he was a kid would rat out fellow students.

This is either one or two things and neither of them have to do with timing. Either the last time the Marines trained there there were issues from after-hours situations (it has happened before) or the Mayor is a leftist B______ with contempt for our men and women who protect our country. With the way he was tap dancing trying to explain who said what when, it is obvious that if he wanted to help the training happen all he had to do was give it his blessing since the police had already planned for it.
How much you want to bet he will be the first one whining about federal relief actions not being fast enough when a disaster befalls his city? Then he will be yelling and screaming for the Feds to do something.
Why is it more and more of our elected officials (NOT LEADERS!) try to stick it to our military? Toledo needs to ditch this guy in the next election. He could probably find a job in New Orleans with Nagan. They both seem to operate on the same intellect level.

The few, the proud, the Marines.
The stupid, the ignorant, the mayor.

Semper Fi and gung-ho.

I agree with the Mayor. I'm sick of these excercises which are nothing more than a pretext for martial law sometime in the future.

And guess what, I'm a Republican.

Most of you people on this post who support these exercises are wrong and frankly, have your head in the sand.

Many years ago as a young Marine I was in Toledo, just for a night. I'm appalled that the mayor would deny the needed training for America's soldiers. He, like many Americans, don't know the life-saving importance of such training. Aside from the obvously paranoid comments which have been filed, I agree with the majority of them.

Mayor, since you clearly don't know the Pledge or the Constitution or understand your duty yes, duty, to protect your citizens, you should be impeached immediately. If Alan Paton were alive, he could write a sequel and call it, "A Mayor Without a City." My goodness man, don't you have an ounce of sense or decency? Oh no, that would mean you would have to have a spine, which you lost somewhere along the way. Toledo will recoil and cringe in recriminations as a city from hereon, each time the death of a soldier or marine or sailor is reported. Remember Mayor, you helped it happen. You need to do some serious soul searching and apologize to this country. This is treason, and I would not be surprised to see you indicted as aiding and abetting. Your shame will stain your soul till until you right this wrong, apologize and take responsibility for your intense disloyalty to this country and your countrymen.

These Marines need to train in a realistic environment to carry out their mission. Without realistic training, lives of our brave Marines are lost until they come up to speed. Mayor, the blood that will be lost by these Marines bring shame to you and to the good people of Toledo. I hope the people of Toledo will remove you from office for not supporting our fighting men and women.

We must not frighten the poor masses with armed solders in town. They might think we are preparing to defend them from the nasty terrorists.

All we have to do is give the terrorists a few millions of dollars they will go away. Just Ask Obama!

The Mayor may have the right to do what he did but please do not ask the military to come to his assistance during an emergency of his making. He seems to have a deep dislike for the military and would rather they did not exist in his world. To bad I guess many in the military have died for his freedoms and prejudice.

This is totally different from the Berkley nuts. When you say urban warfare training and submit for training in Toledo that should throw up a flag..this is not Russia. I agree with the other fellow viet nam vet that I did not fight for military operations to take place in my city or anyother. We have billions and billions to stay in Iraq but we cannot afford training grounds on military installations? Sure. Be careful folks at how far you will let our government go without questions. Think this out before you comment, and I say this as a love-America vet. I am not liking what I am seeing with the quick to the throat attitude of any one who disagrees with us. I hate the Berkley mentality but, will not offer our freedoms up cheapley.

Obviously since the article failed to mention his political party you can assume he isn't a Republican! It would have been in bold bring if he was! I love the fact that progressive Democrats (aka Liberals) feel the military is the problem when their cities are falling apart due to crime and failed liberal policies to keep people in their place (aka poor and uneducated).

People of Toledo,
Your Mayor is a 1st class jerk. Recall the fool. There is no way this idiot represents the hardworking patriots who make Toledo their home. They scare people??! I wonder what the people in NYC think of your idiot Mayor. Buildings collapsing with Americans still inside is scary. Marines practicing to protect the homeland is called FREEDOM!!!

He should change his name ot Quisling!

NBC24
thank you for your segment on this very appalling stunt from Toledo's mayor finkbeiner. it would seem
that he is not in sinc with his constituents.
My very dear cousin Gaylord E. Nootz was Toledo high school graduate, his name is on the Viet Nam Wall as he gave his life in 1967.
What a shame from an elected official
Thank You for allowing me to comment
Sincerly
William Coleman
Former Sergeant of Marines

If Toledo folk can't see that their mayor is protecting their interests, they are quite simply blind.

Our Marines ought to be honored for their work, but they do have other options available for their training.

If people can't see this sort of training as being conducive to the coming police state, I just don't know what this world is coming to.

Do you enjoy living in fear? We need to start fearing the ones who order our troops.... they are the ones who are making terrorists out of honest hard working American citizens who are not content with our current government. People like me who would rather not sacrifice our liberties for the sake "our safety".

Why is it necessary to train the troops in a populated city? There are plenty of places to do this safely for the public and the military. Governors island in New York is a perfect example of a place they could conduct these exercises. It's a coast guard base that is closed down. No one on that island and they have all types of building there that would be perfect for doing these types of exercises. Why disrupt a city and their normal goings on when you have closed military bases like Governors Island that would be much safer for everyone. There has to be an alterior motive for wanting the troops in a populated city.
After spending time in the army in Vietnam, I didtrust a lot of things the military does. My favorite saying about the military and the government is "Don't believe half of what they tell you and question the other half.
I think the Mayor made a good, safe, and practical decision.

For all of you complaining that this is the start of Martial Law, wake up. Can you really be that ignorant? Are you truly so afraid that you think military training means they're "coming to get you." Please. Have you not lived in this world in the last, oh, 6 years or so? You're the first to complain now, and were probably the first to complain the gov't didn't do enough to prevent recent events in history. If you don't feel strongly enough about supporting our military who sacrifice their lives to protect this country, please LEAVE. Let those who honestly want to help our country survive do the dirty work. This isn't Nazi Germany, this is us trying to train to protect our own, EVERYONE, all races, all religions. Hello!

It's good that the mayor removed the marines. The civil war was the last time there was military fighting in united states cities, and I think someone wrote down that it would never happen again....ever. There is absolutely no chance of any military action against the continental united states...ever. So there is no reason to train in a city in the united states. Sorry to frighten people, because it will never happen, you know, because it just won't. It sure is stupid of the military to want to train at a site where there may be an action in the future. Let's just let them wing it if it happens for real....which it won't....right?
Sound like good reasoning?

It's the Mayor's right to do what he did, but it's also ours to ignore his pleas for help when one of the spleeper cells in his city decides to act. (Given Toledo's demographics the odds are in favor of there being at least one.) Sorry citizens of Toledo, you voted for him, so you get the support that he's earning for you, just like Berkeley!

My son-in-law was KIA on Feb 19, 2007 so I freely admit that my view point may be a bit slanted.

Some one please explaine something to me. City government can "evict" a Federal "agency" when it comes to the military. However, the City government can not detain illeal aliens because their crime is a Federal crime. Does that seem a bit screwy to any one else?

Google Sgt. Buddy Hughie and see what a remarkably brave US Army medic Buddy was.

The comments about the troops patroling the streets in coming years you are totally out of your mind that is the funniest doo doo I have read in a long time are you sure with your rant about the MAN preparing you for this and that and the constitution, I get it your really TED Kaz er whats his name. HAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAH that is some funny doo doo wake up ya clown it was just a training exercise.

I'm sure these people scream the loudest at the atrocity of how many of your bravest give their lives in combat- yet they oppose the all of the proactive procedures to ensure less lives lost. Isn't that the defintion of hypocrite?

Remember when u need us we wont be there....

I hope that Toledo won't have any need of assistance from the American military in the future - especially help from the Marines. This story tells me that the military isn't welcome there, so why should they help such a city? Besides, this might frighten the people of Toledo.

Based upon the plethora of uninformed comments and dangerously misguided patriotism evidenced on this forum--just as Germans embraced Hitler's policestate--America will be an easy nation to bring under the control of the Beast's one world govt system. "My people perish for lack of knowledge," God has said. And those luciferians in control are fully aware that a majority of citizens are unable to discern the "signs of the times." Be wise and get right with Christ BEFORE He returns and be vigilant looking for His return or else you're going to see much worse than Marines playing war games in Toledo.

Wake up and smell the fascism, all you "real patriots" out there. The mayor made a smart move. Not that it will do much good. If the time comes when martial law is declared, say, in the aftermath of another false flag terrorist attack, the government will be more likely to send out Blackwater or some other contractor, than the marines.

All you blindly patriotic war mongers are destroying this country.

I hope the terrorists take this show of appeasment as an inspiration.

This is not a government conspiracy. Troops have trained in American cities since the beginning of the country. It is not about city rights. City rights were preserved just fine. The mayor said no and the marines won't train there. The rights of Toledo will not be stepped on by the military. They are decent people unlike The mayor Finkwhiner and the stupid liberals that keep voting for him. All of the liberals in Toledo don't deserve the protection the military provides this country. They aren't decent Americans and are proving it more and more each day. Carty Finkwhiner is nothing short of an un-American liberal piece of crap. Of course, he represents all of the scumbag liberals in this country. I only live 30 minutes away and I'll be sure not to spend any of my income there. Thats for sure. Hopefully other decent Americans in this region will take the same attitude. Lets stop supporting these filthy scumbags.

Berkeley kicked them out, Toledo kicked them out and so did San Francisco. Seems to me that in time of war, the Marines should remember these cities and continue to stay out of them.

Since when does an elected or an appointed official trump the training needs of the U.S. Marines, and consequently the citizens of the United States of America?
SHAME on him!!! He enjoys his WARPED sense of power because of the sacrifices made by former military personnel. A true black mark on the city of Toledo, my home town.

"What we have here is a failure of communication." Maybe. But, Finkbeiner doesn't want the Marines around for important training. That's what matters. Fine. Recall the Mayor just as California recalled its previous governor. To paraphrase Barrack Obama, "Yes, you can!"

I think we should dress the mayor as a terroist and let the marines hunt him. He might then appreciate the gravity of him incompetance and intolerance.

I think he should be forced to move to Berkley .

For all the posts I have read that Blast this mayor and scream that he must be a Democrat, or that he hates the troops I say this......

You people do not understand what is going on.

The military has no reason to practice in with the people of a city. They do this because they ARE CONDITIONING YOU for Martial Law.......

The military is already asking the soldiers if they would shoot family members or friends. They have only started increasing the "mock" urban warfare since Shrub took office.

The military is doing this so that YOU do not resist them when they begin to do this when Martial Law is enacted........

You SHEEPLE are really cowards who are using this as a way to feel safer..... YOU are no safer by allowing this then not allowing it. YOU are actually LESS safer because YOU are giving the military a way to settle into your little mind that this is normal.

There is a reason that the military does not mingle their training with the people...... It's called the Military, not POLICE!!!!

The military has a different purpose, and it is NOT for mostly the militaries training. It's to make the civilian population less concerned when they are walking up and down the streets and entering peoples houses in the not so distant future.

This is called a POLICE STATE when that is done.

Having served in the military, and reading several posts above from ex-military, I am concerned of how much this Administration has BRAINWASHED them and their actual understanding of what the military is for. It's sad when ex-military people are supporting the notion that troops should be walking up and down the streets performing exercises.......

The military has plenty of places to practice, and they do not need to do it in a city that has civilians in it. Don't give me this "they need to train in a "real" enviroment" crap either..... They can have training in a mock city and use two teams to make the training realistic and more true to life. They don't need, nor should they be, practicing in a city around civilians.

Next you'll be telling me that they should be allowed to fire their missiles and tanks at buildings because this is real life training.....

By the way...... If your concerned about them "defending" against "Domestic Enemies", then I suggest that you contact all the states and ask them when they will send their guard troops to do their job against the biggest "enemy" to the Constitution citing at 1600 Pensylvania Ave. Washington DC???? This administration has done more harm to our Constitution and shredded it so much that it is hardly recognizable. Those that say "BS", then please show me where in the Constitution it allows for "signing statements". There are only TWO options for a bill. 1) sign it and make it law. 2) Veto it and send it back.

The President cannot pick and choose what part of a bill he will enforce and what part he will not..... That is called a DICTATOR, not a President.

This is the small part of what this administration has done to destroy the Constitution, but you scream and hollar about a mayor and do NOTHING about the destruction of the Constitution. This is why I say those ex-military people are BRAINWASHED. The oath is to the Constitution, not a party or person. Start upholding your OATH or you too will be considered an "enemy" when there is a revolution when Martial Law is enacted.

Mayor Fink is a prime exampled of liberalism. It is a cancer of the intellectual mind. It rots public institutions (from within) that great men fought for. It (liberalism) cannot distinguish between right and wrong. This is also a pox mark on the universities that produce the Fink’s of the world. The intellectuals (cheese and wine crowd, for the most part) seem to forget that their comfort and intellectual sloth is a by product of great Americans willing to fight and die for their country. To expel the Marines from his city and deny them their life saving training because it scares the locals is a weak argument at best, pathetic at most. Mayor Fink should be removed from office for dereliction of duty. This country will not right itself until the very last of the 60’s generation (hippie’s only, not the good people who had to endure) is expelled from the lower intestine of America.

I served 21 years in the Marine Corps and three of those years were in combat. When I joined the Corps, I took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

It doesn't matter if the President is a Republican or a Democrat. I went to war under Presidents Johnson (a Democrat) and Ronald Reagan (a Republican). It saddens me to see so many of my fellow citizens express such distrust in our intentions.

I'd like to remind everyone that in times of trouble of all kinds, Governors frequently call out the National Guard and/or ask for federal military assistance. Military helicopters have been requested to rescue thousands of average US citizens.

For those of you who are afraid that George Bush will invade your cities, Martial Law can only be implemented at the request of the legislator or governor of the state. If Martial Law comes to Toledo, it will be because your state officals requested it. For all of you Sea Lawyers out there, yes the President can declare Martial Law if multiple states or territories are in insurrection against the United States. Something that has only happened in the American Civil War.

Martial Law was declared in Los Angeles after the Watts Riots began in August 1965. Rioters, armed and dangerous, overwhelmed the resources of local law enforcement and the National Guard was activated to restore order, which it did in short order. Martial Law was then requested by the Governor.

The commander of the National Guard when Martial Law was requested was a Los Angeles motorcycle patrol officer. This made him superior to his boss, the Los Angeles police chief, during the short period in which Martila Law was in force. You may have noticed that Los Angeles is still safely in the hands of a Democrat today.

Please stop drinking your conspiracy Kool Aide from your tin foil hats.

It is obvious that there is only one reason and one reason only why this clown got elected to office and you only need to look at his past time in office....the good people of Toledo needed comedy relief!!!!

Is this guy the mayor of Toledo or Berkley, CA? It seems that opposition to the armed forces is catching among politically correct politicians.

Also, it is not a violation of posse commitatus for our troops to train within our borders. Only a pea-wit would say that.

There are plenty of training areas across the country. We do not need to allow soldiers to train in any city, when there are plenty of facilities and abandoned bases across the country that would be just as well suited. This same premise should go for mock bombing runs over U.S. cities as well. Plenty of open range over federal land.

Enough with the patriot talk and the saving one life stuff, this is about all our freedoms and states rights. A federal army has no place using a city block as a training ground...period.

It's amazing how most of the replies regarding this story is coming from non-Toledoans who don't live there. Reminds me about some people who advocate war but who don't want anything to do with it, "grass is always greener" somewhere else.

The Right to keep and bear arms! As long as the democrats leave the Second Amendment alone then We The People will be able to keep tyranny and government tyrants like Nancy Pelopsi and Mayor Carty Finkbeine at bay. If the democrats manage to take the White House this year, a possibility, THEN you can start to worry about tyranny.
Maybe it's something in the water in northern Ohio that gives them the likes of Carty Finkbeine and Dennis 'Cookoo' Kucinich.

It seems the water isn't the only thing that smells in Toledo. Feel safe Toledans...the Mayor has your back!

What's all this talk about Hole-edo?

Wait for the reaction of the citizens of the city. If they have the sense to undo the mayor's mistake, it's great. If they cannot/do not, the Marines should boycott the city in some such form which will make the city realize the importance of a mighty military absence.

Been reading all the comments on this situation. Except for a few, the comments renew my faith in this countries support for the USMC and patriotism in general. I grew up in Angola, Indiana. I never knew any Hoosier who would do such a numb-nut thing like the mayor (lower case intention) of Toledo. This guy is a Harry Reid, wave the white flag, Democrat. These were week end warriors trying to get their training in on a realistic situation and not break the budget. What is the big deal? Hang in there Toledo...Just vote this really dumb clown out of office. Find someone who has the utmost respect for out uniformed troops. This mayor wouldn't last 5 minutes in Texas...Semper Fi Y'all be Well

By law the mayor does not need to allow the Marines into Toledo. Also by law Toledo is only allowed State and Federal Money voted to Toledo by the government. Call and write your Congressman or Congress women to ZERO out Toledo, tell them it is something you believe is important and will influence your vote next time. Call or write your Govenor, tell him you believe it is a WASTE OF YOUR TAX DOLLARS to send help to Toledo in the event of an emergency, and that there are more deserving cities for your guard troops. The same for Berkley, if there are tornados or earthquakes, they should not expect the armed services including the Nat'l Guard to come help them.
I'm sure the Mayor will help you in your time of need.

I wish all you people who served in the military would stop throwing it up on a wall like as if it makes you a better person than anyone else. I respect your service and all, but that doesn't have anything to do with what's going in this story. It is unconstitutional to have the military training in U.S. cities like that, period. This has nothing to do with Osama or his mama. These exercises have been going on for more than a decade in various cities throughout the country. And I'd bet money you couldn't find one where they had anybody dress up to play the role of Al Qaeda. However, they have used civilians to play the role of citizens in situations where they have to quell dissent. Just google 'operation garden plot' or 'operation urban warfare.' Also go on youtube and look up operation urban warfare and you will see the video of the exercise in Oakland, CA where they actually have people playing civilians and the troops are processing them into the concentration camp. The military has also had exercises where they raid High schools and elementary schools and point their guns in children's faces. Guess that'll show Al Qaeda, huh? Also google 'concentration camps' and you will get plenty of links including a press report that shows that the US gov't gave Halliburton subsidiary KBR(Kellogg Brown and Root) a $385 million dollar contract to build camps throughout the US. If u still think it's a game, then go ahead and keep your head in the sand. If it's about terrorism, then why are they asking troops if they would shoot US citizens? Why is the gov't building concentration camps? Why are there no actors playing terrorists in these exercises, but there are people playing dissenting citizens? Oh, I also forgot to mention that they have been conducting these exercises with foreign and NATO troops because these foreign troops have no loyalty or obligation to the citizens of this country whatsoever. One more thing, you can google 'rex 84.' And, for those on here who know what's going on, when you post, you should put up at least one link or term for people to google so that they can read it for themselves. We know what we're talking about, but to others it may seem ridiculous, so give 'em some proof so to speak. I think it helps. I wish people would wake up to this. You should read all the stories of what FEMA did after Katrina.

The mayor was right on. I don't support Bush's "get-even-with-Saddam-because-he-dissed-my-daddy" war, and I don't support US troops, either. If servicemen and women were capable of independent thought (which is forbidden and which is brainwashed out of them during basic training), each and every one of them would refuse to deploy to a pointless war that has brought the USA nothing except (1) 3000+ dead American soldiers, (2) 50,000+ soldiers whose lives have been ruined because of catastrophic injury and PTSD, and (3) international scorn and retribution which guarantees that we will have future terrorists trying to hurt us in the future.

Where is Osama bin Laden? Free. Where are the "weapons of mass destruction"? They never existed. You "repugnicans" need to wake up and smell the truth, but all you know is what Rush Limbaugh tells you.

American troops don't need to use US cities to play in. We should take the $100-million+ that is expended every day in Iraq and use it for health care for the tens of millions of Americans who don't have it. I'm sick of you mindless flag-wavers; get the real facts before you dis the mayor.

A REAL AMERICAN

As a former Toledoian I'll never forget the embarrassment and teasing I got from my out of state friends back when Carty proposed his solution to the noise complaints from residents near the airport. Sell the land to deaf people was Carty's solution! I believe that one also made the national news, not to mention a place in a book of the 100 stupidest things ever uttered by politicians.

For those of you who are disgusted by the actions this mayor took...... bravo

For those of you who do not understand..... i'll spell it out.
1. Reservist need training just like everyone else
2. They have already trained in Toledo and...gasp they didnt put anyone in concentration camps
3. Marines have a history of defending the american way of life not opressing the population, unlike most of you
4. As Marines we take an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies foriegn and domestic, which means we are not going to oppress the population..... ever
5. If you really believe that the US military is training it's troops to oppress the population and submit everyone to political reeducation dont you think you should leave now while you still can. That will really throw a wrench in our devious plan wouldnt it.
6. Even as stupid as you people are I am still going to help you if you need it.... because thats who I am not because you deserve it.

Dave Roberts
Baghdad Iraq
Sgt USMC, combat veteran 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008

P.S. To that idiot poster from earlier "Semper Fidelis" means "Always Faithful" and I havent forgotten, have you?

Toledo Mayor Finkbeiner's decision to ban a US Marine training exercise in a small portion of urban Toldedo reflects the anti-military mindset that infects the Democratic Party.

I agree with the Mayor in this matter. The U.S. military has spent millions of taxpayer dollars building "urban warfare" training sites. In fact, most military bases have structures that are suitable -- barracks, office buildings, etc.

Some years ago, the Army conducted similar training in Jacksonville - this was during the Clinton administration. A substantial number of people believed -- and still believe -- that what this was all about was getting U.S. citizens used to the idea of armed government troops within the U.S. civil environment.

At that time, at least 2 of the CH-47 helicopters they were using came away with what appeared to be .308 rifle bullet holes in their skin. There was more than a little hostility to "Bill's 'jackbooted thugs'.

I spent 24 years in the military -- and there will never dawn a day when I will believe that U.S. troops should be deployed with weapons anywhere in a U.S. city. We saw what the U.S. Army did to 80+ civilians in Waco.

Mike

The mayor of Toledo is a total coward in my opinion.

He and his pretentious family hide behind Marines and Police yet he thinks very low of them as his actions demonstrate.

He and his family should get laughed at and scorned by the community at large.

He is nothing more than a disgraceful coward in my opinion.

The military should have places to train without using an American city. This training is for American martial law, not keeping Iraq safe you fools. Don't you get it? Judging by how many have voted for these idiots in the primaries, I'd guess most of you are brain dead. I'm buying a gun with my check from the government. To protect myself and my family. You morons can go buy something at the mall.

Why would anyone want marines to practice urban warfare in their city? Good for the Mayor.

Commrade Mayor-got luck in the next election. Nice move.

Sincerely,

Karl Marx

The mayor is definitely too immature for the job and should be recalled. The important thing is saving lives, not his displeasure with a little commotion.

Lessee, when last heard of in the wider world, the contentious Mayor Finkbeiner had parked in a handicapped space and left his dog in a closed car on a hot day effectively alienating the handicapped and animal lovers votes. Now he decides he doesn't need pro-military voters either. What a guy! Tell me, is he Democrat, Republican or Independent this go around?

Obviously this man has been the beneficiary of the largess of those who have served this country and believes he is entitled to that protection without any sacrifice on his part.

He is the perfect example of everything that is wrong with this country, spoiled, lazy people who think that our freedoms are delivered via magic rather than through the commitment of those willing to sacrifice everything for the common good.

what a moron. Putting the best foot forward for the city of Toledo, thats for sure....

I have seen a few commentaries that attempt to equate this urban warfare training with practice for martial law. The training these Marines were attempting to provide to these troops was to place them in scenarios they would likely encounter in the cities of Iraq. The USMC does not have as part of its training guidlines scenarios for the overthrow of the US government.

Do we now live in North Korea? We need troops in our cities to protect us from Arabs in caves flying into our buildings after training with our CIA? Or, do we need the troops to kill any Americans getting out of line cause of lost jobs, homes and money made worthless? Why did my husband have to take a questionaire responding to whether he would shoot American citizens??? We no longer have a voice in decisions this government makes. I actually look forward to the tyranny coming down the pike as Americans deserve to be butchered for their abuses of the third world peoples of the world.

THAT MAYOR HAS A LOT OF GUTS . WE SHOULD KICK HIM OUT OF OHIO, HE MUST BE A DEMOCRAT OBAMA SUPPORTER... THAT "MAYOR" SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF HIMSELF.. EVERY EFFORT TO HELP THE MILITARY SHOULD BE MADE BY EVERY AMERICAN... BUT SINCE THE OBAMA CREWS ARE NOTHING MORE THAN COMMUNISTS , I DON'T EXPECT ANYTHING DIFFERENT... YOU CAN TELL THE MARINES THAT I HAVE 3 acres of land and they are more than welcome to drill here... and I will Feed them to... its THE VERY LEAST I CAN DO FOR THE BRAVE MEN AND WOMAN WHO PUT THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE FOR ME AND MY FAMILY EVERY DAY... THE MAYOR IS A FILTY PIG, AND THAT IS WHY TOLEDO IS A NATIONAL DUMP...

Interesting how those who WANTED the Marines to practice urban warfare in downtown Toledo said things like, "If the life of one marine is saved, it's well worth it."

But there are many more -- much more -- important questions! What kind of "urban warfare" do the marines need to train for that takes place in a distinctly American downtown area? Downtown Toledo is absolutely UNlike any urban environment the marines might encounter in, say, Iraq or Afghanistan or Kosovo or much of anyplace else where we have (illegally and immorally) deployed so many U.S. servicemen and women. You can well imagine that having young marines complete "urban warfare" maneuvers -- repeatedly over time -- in a distinctly American urban environment will make it seem like "business as usual" when martial law is declared and U.S. military personnel are "ordered" to patrol the streets of the USA.

Interesting, too, that they would be "shooting blanks." This allows them to be conditioned to aim and fire at anything that moves (ostensibly, citizens of the "urban war zone") with no concern for the consequences. When martial law is declared, they'll be prepared to aim and fire at anything/anyone that moves.

Did the U.S. learn absolutely NOTHING from Kent State?????

And I am SO SICK of those who, when hearing of ANY opposition to the military, start whining about all the "heroes in uniform." A hero is NOT defined by a uniform. A hero is NOT someone who blindly follows orders with no concern for morality or legality. A hero is someone who does what is RIGHT, even in the face of overwhelming public stupidity and political machinations that are as UNAmerican as anything we have ever seen!

the willingness of most of the above commenters to apparently want to give up their freedoms for the security of a military protectorate. Good on the mayor. I for one do not want to live in a militarized society.

Murder: 27.3% Increase
Forcible Rape: 23.6% Increase
Robbery: 13.5% Increase
Aggravated Assault: 13.5% Increase
People are scared already but not of the Marines.

To everyone here that is running full bore to label people as unpatriotic and un-military you need to stop for a second and do some research into the issue of our military practicing civilian maneauvers in the US. You might find out that military patrols of your neighboorhood arent as 'good old fashion USA' as you all pretend.

I dont know much about this Mayor but I am inclined to believe he had the public in mind when he made this call. Kudos for him for having the gaul to stand up to the military.

The mayor forgets who guarantee's his freedom... God first, government next, if need be, a good marine...looks like City of Toledo is following the City of Berkeley (sometimes called Berzerkly in other places in California) in it's anti-military, anti-war political stance at the expense of our brave military in uniform who look back at the United States from the battlefield in absolute bewilderment. Some have lost faith all because they couldn't count on good citizens of their own country to back them up.... wake up Mr. Mayor... it's not about you, your politics or you political games within the city government... it's about the poor and helpless in Iraq and the brave marines who today, are protecting them... rofaith

Liberals breathe the air of freedom that the United States military provides, but yet they state that they hate the military. You have to be a being of lesser intelligence to reconcile those 2 facts(FACTS!) in your head. NO amount of spinning of words can change those 2 facts, so don't try, it makes you look more stupid.

If it weren't for the US military, these same do nothing liberals would have the Japanese/German military breaking down their door for speaking this same way about those 2 occupying armies. Childish rationale from dummies.

Facts, not words, make good arguments. The Mayor of Toledo is anti-military, but yet his town is protected by the military. What an idiot.

Mike
Philadelphia, PA

Why in the world would the Mayor do this? This is a great way to train his own police and fire departments for an emergency.

How hard is it to go on TV and tell people there will be a drill? How hard is it to post signs around town letting people know?? Thats what happens here when the postal annex has a drill.

I hope there is never a natural or man made disaster in Toledo. They have an idiot at the helm. If they are getting any homeland security money than the government should cut them off.

The mayor is a MORON!

God Bless our Marines. They fight for the for the rights off all americans...even the dumb ones!!!

kudos,to the mayor,this urban training,is to take over american cities,when the new world order calls for it,and they are gonna do it

I am a veteran and i think what the mayor did was courageous, We spend over $500 Billion dollars a year on the military. They have lots of places to practice. I don't want them getting comfortable taking over American cities, It is against our constitution.

I am a resident and find it very sad to see some of the comments on this site from fellow Toledo citizens. Furthermore, our mayor has made a horrible decision and needs to take corrective measures immediately. If our brothers and sisters of the military want to train in our town I would let them train at my home. A recent list posted by the media provided cities recently determined to be possible "hot spots" for terrorist attacks. Toledo was among the cities listed. For any citizen or politican to deny the military the right to train in our town is complete insanity and foolish. If there were a terrorist attack on our town the men and women of our military would drop everything and help us defend our homes, our family and our way of life. Guess who would be crying if they didn't arrive fast enough.... Yep, you guessed it - the same whiners who are siding with the mayor (see other comments on this page). ATTENTION FELLOW AMERICANS - NOT EVERYONE IN TOLEDO AGREES WITH OUR MAYOR. IN FACT, MOST OF US HAVE DISLIKED HIM FOR A LONG TIME AND WOULD LOVE TO SEE HIM REMOVED FROM OFFICE. MAYOR FINK WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN REELECTED IF WE HAD A DECENT ALTERNATIVE DURING OUR LAST ELECTION.

I say - GOD BLESS AMERICA and GOD BLESS OUR MILITARY.

TO THE MEN AND WOMEN OF THE UNITED STATES MILITARY:
Thank you for your service!!! My family and I appreciate your sacrifice everyday and we welcome you to our town - please come back!

~Proud American Citizen~
-DM-

You, Sir, are an idiot. Check this corrupt clown's background here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carty_Finkbeiner

Enough said.

This Marine Corps unit requiring the use of downtown Toledo for their urban combat training is nonsense. The mayor of that city should be praised for having the courage for running them out of town.

There need to be laws enacted on a national level to ban the use of urban streets and public areas by Federal troops for training exercises. If it is not already, then this practice should be expressly against the law.

The only lawful reason to have armed military on the streets of America is if there's an invasion by a foreign enemy. That's it! If some federal military formation needs to train in an urban type setting, then there are still enough large size military bases left. Many of those facilities are in fact are self contained cities unto themselves. Plenty of buildings, doorways, hidden corners and alleys in which to hone skills in door to door street fighting or whatever tactical training is order of the day.

From long experience in such matters as on the ground infantry training, I can attest that this activity is highly suspect. Perhaps people need to question if there are other motives behind the reason for having armed federal troops practicing urban warfare in our city streets.

For those quoting the The Posse Comitatus Act, you've missed the key section of that act that forbids a law enforcement role. There is nothing there about normal combat operation training.

Urban warfare training has nothing to do with law enforcement, and has everything to do with...well, urban warfare.

The mayor was within his rights to stop the training, but those who disagree are also well within their rights to voice said opposition, and to act with their pocketbooks if they so choose. Those that live in Toledo have the right to act with their votes if they wish.

Those who think we're living in a police state obviously have no difficulty in voicing that opinion, even though were this really one your objections would be filtered, deleted, and you'd likely be under arrest.

I've lived in one, where even the taxi cabs record your conversations. Your attempts at attending a simple church service is recorded and watched. You watch CNN and the television goes blank when anything remotely controversial comes on, only to return at the commercial break. You have to register with the local police department when you change address. You have to deal with getting permission just to change the city you live in, let alone the state.

Government oversight is a good thing, but conspiracy theories are just that...theories. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct one. In this case, the military wants to hone it's urban warfare skills. Anything more than that, is purely fantasy.

Better put your tin foil hat back on.

Grand rapids is roughly the same size as Toledo, and is home to GOP hawk Richard DeVos (Amway). Why would they need to travel to Toledo to train instead of doing so in downtown GR??? Gary, Indiana has a half empty downtown with many vacant buildings perfect for training. Flint does too. Battle Creek also has a 20+ story Federal Center that could be used for training if they need a fuctional office building! There may be more to this than meets the eye!!

The cowardly mayor of Toledo should have had the courage to tell the Marines in person that he revoked the agreement to conduct urban warfare training before they committed to the exercise. I shall write to my senators and congressional rep to ensure that the Marines send Toledo a bill for the wasted trip.

Well, I for one am not surprised. Carty Finkwiner is and arrogant, self centered, senile mayor. Over the years, Carty has embarassed himself, and the citizens of Toledo numerous times, like the time he said that they should move all the deaf people who live in Toledo, out by the airport, or the time that he forced a car off the road in his own personal vehicle to write a guy a ticket for a supposed traffic violation that Carty "witnessed", and other assorted garbage to numerous to mention. We have tried to recall him, but its no help. Please resign now Carty, you embarass us and your wife. Poor Amy!

This would be an interesting story about any city, but given I am a former Toledo resident, I am extremely curious about how urban training operations are conducted. I think the Marines should be given whatever they need, but how can you do an op like this and be absolutely sure you're not going to scare a few people half to death? Not because they are "afraid" of seeing troops train, but because of the inevitable people who will have been out of town, not read the papers or seen the news, etc. Especially with all the hype about terrorists targeting cities, and the fact that most of us would probably never imagine the military does this sort of thing. If I suddenly saw heavily-armed Marines patrolling, running, firing, etc. in a downtown area, training would the LAST thing I would assume. How is the training area delineated? Are there big signs that say "Please don't panic, it's only an exercise?" What happens if some snoopy kids come running around a corner and surprise an adrenaline-pumped patrol? Might they not get knocked flat, or find themselves looking down a gun barrel, at least? And there would have to be plenty of adrenaline; even paintball wars can get pretty intense. How could troops maintain a combat mindset with constant worry about civilians popping up somewhere unexpectedly? I'm thinking traffic accidents, some poor old lady or homeless person having a heart attack. As a mayor, I would be concerned, especially if I felt unprepared and needed a lot more information. I would like to hear more about this from military personnel, as well as civilians who have actually experienced this in their cities. I could be wrong, but serious military operations in heavily-populated urban areas sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

444444444444QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

Retired Military

This isn't the first time he has done something this dumb, he does it on a regularly. I really think he does it for face time in the media and especially for a national audience. Loves the attention just for HIS gain, the hell with the people of Toledo. He has NO clue, doesn't even know how bills are paid in the city of Toledo. What a guy, loose cannon.

I'm not sure which is worse. The blame America first crowd or the conspiracy theory nuts that are posting on here.

they dont want the marines in berkley ca. or in toledo, oh. shame on you mayor. what kind of support does this show are men & woman of the military.

The unit in question is a resere unit. It is much more cost effective to the tax payers if urban combat is practiced in an area like Toledo than to pay to have all the men and equipment shipped to LeJeune or Pendleton. When I was in the Marines back in the 80's we trained in urban warfare even though we had no use for it. Marines are trianed in mountain, artic, URBAN, desert and amphibious warfare. If you look at the Marine Corps Hymn you will note a vese that mentions fighting in "every clime and place." This was just a case of Marines training as they have trained for years and some dumb pollotician playing games. For those of you who fear yoour rights are being slowly eroded, stop being paranoid.

This socalled Mayor would be one of the first to holler/scream the longest & loudest if they needed help, like New Orleans mayor and State Rep. during Katrina. The Federal Government was supposed to come down and save them, without themselves lifting a finger. They blamed it all on the Bush Administration's like of Help. Good luck Toledo Mayor.

Maybe Toledo residents should take a look at how the Mayor is treating our heroes and should remove him from office?
If part of his reasoning is an oppositionto the war in Iraq, maybe he should consider that the more the Marines train and higher quality that training is, the more likely they will carry out their missions with higher accuracy, less injuries and lower civilian casualties.
If the Mayor is against saving both Marine and civilian lives, then so be it. However, recalling him or not re-electing him would be a high priority if I lived in Toledo. God Bless the Corp and all they give to protect fools like the Mayor.

The Top 10 Reasons Why the Mayor Doesn't Want Marines in Toledo

1. Code Pink conference call already postponed twice -- doesn't want to "dis" them again

2. ACLU might sue for failure to allow Communist Party Parade the same weekend

3. his dog doesn't like noises louder than 10 decibels unless it's the sound of his limo picking him up for a Sunday drive to City Hall

4. joined at the hip to Berkeley, CA and afraid operation to be surgically removed will be too risky

5. doesn't want to see Hillary Clinton crying in public again

6. afraid he'll be taken off of the Air America "Le Prime Guest Speaker" list

7. doesn't want to offend local sleeper cells

8. doesn't want the word "urban" mentioned...it rhymes with "turban" which might possibly have the potential to offend Al Qaeda

9. Al Jazeera unable to get camera crew to Toledo in time to grab footage then use it in a misleading way to bash America

10. doesn't want the hassle of having to walk half a block for a cup of coffee when a Humvee is parked in the handicapped spot in front of Starbucks

man what a tool have you seen the crime rate there twice the nat. avg
how would the usmc scare the people i would have thought it would be the other way around.what a loser
semper fi

Mayor, you are a discrace , as a retired ltcol I am embarrased to know you are an elected official. I know you do not represent the feelings of your constituncy. I sincerely hope you do not get re-elected to discrace the good patritoic people of Ohio.

I am a PROUD Mom of the Military and PROUD to be an AMERICAN. We should all rally around our city officials and request they invite the Military to our cities. These brave young men and women are willing to go into harms way for us at any given moment. Most of them are 19 to 22 year olds who have sacrificed their own personal rights to defend and protect the rights and freedoms we enjoy daily and the freedoms of others. It is time we stand united and thank our military and offer them any assistance we can. We should stop and recite The Marines' Hymn, it is a tribute to The proud Brotherhood of Marines who are guided by principles, values, virtues, and love of country. Marine Warriors stormed fortress Derna, raised the American flag, and gave us "the shores of Tripoli." Marines fought their way into the castle at Chapultepec and gave us the "halls of Montezuma." Marines exist for the purpose of warfighting. Fighting is their role in life. They "fight for right and freedom" and "to keep our honor clean." They fight "in the air, on land, and sea." For those who are not willing or brave enough to stand behind our military, then try to stand in front of them! IF NOT THEM, THEN WHO…? REMEMBER FREEDOM IS NOT FREE!

Mr. Mayor,
Let's see your bravado when the chips are down, when some terrorist action threatens our country and possibly your city.

Go ahead for the present and deny these brave troops their abiltiy to properly train. Go ahead and stick your head in the sand.

Semper Fi USMC
Semper idiot Mr. Mayor.

Kudos to you, Mr. Mayor.
They are training for martial law that will take place inside our borders in the coming years of unrest. I am glad you are on the side of the people and not the thug military.

As someone who wore the uniforms of three of our services (Air Force Medic 64-68, Navy Corpsman 69-88 serving five years with the Marines in two seperate tours, wearing their uniform with Navy stripes).I find the actions of this mayor reprehensible and
disgusting.

The City Council should not only apolagise to the Marines but should seek a way to legally reacall this "Gentleman".

Henry Kissinger made a very disturbing statement after the LA riots in 1992, he said that American's would soon look forward to seeing United Nations troops patrolling their streets. I don't believe the framers of our Constitution believed that we need to give up our Bill of Rights to be "safe". Today its Marines. Marines that are questioned about whether they would shoot American citizens if ordered. Hmm, doesn't that make you a little uneasy? Next, Chinese, Russian killers in black uniforms on every street corner. Will you feel safer then? I urge the Mayor to hold a news conference to educate those who don't understand martial law and tyranny. God Bless you Mayor. You are awake.

Please do not associate the ridiculous decisions of our mayor with the entire City of Toledo. Everyone stating that Toledo is unpatriotic sure does like to jump on the bandwagon. Toledo supports its troops, Toledo fought to keep the 180th here. The mayor will call for help and hopefully someone will answer. He needs help to fix the dam between his brain and his mouth and we would love any assistance we can get!

As a former Toledoan with roots in that city many generations deep, it really saddens me that this affront to our military occurred in that city. Three of our four children were born in Toledo and one is an active Marine, having served in Iraq. Too bad Toledo's mayor has a short memory.

I remember when more Fortune 100 companies made Toledo their world Headquarters. When industrial leaders walked the streets and made the city GREAT...people with names like Knight, Ford, Stranahan, Kelly, Malone, Collins, Willys, O'Boyle, Nicholson, Roemer, Harris, and so many others made their fortunes for themselves, their workers and the city there.

In Woodlawn Cemetery there are many areas set aside to honor the memories of Toledo's past and fallen miliary heros who made the ultimate sacrifice in almost all of the wars that have preserved our liberies, including members of my own family.

Now the names mentioned above for their success, are dead. Their companies are gone from Toledo, and their good works and intentions, no longer present.

Toledo is dying. Too bad Carty has given up it's spirit and former patriotic spine as well.

The objections to the mayor's actions in banning the Marine Corps from exercises in his downtown seem to fall into two categories:

1) There is a terrorist threat to the United States, and these exercises will help deal with it should they hit us in the inner cities.

2) Any mayor who considers the immediate welfare of his constituents is a candidate for banishment to Berkeley, the supposed hellhole. He should be sent from the Rust Belt to the Left Coast immediately. Probably should be exiled to Marin. Berkeley is too good for him.

My personal opinion? Where were the Marines when Katrina destroyed New Orleans? I think they were in Iraq.

Thank God I don't live in this Mayor's city, I'll really tired of the way people denegrate our military. When the sign up to protect the American people, they don't get to pick & choose what they do. But we can certainly all pick & choose to picket this Mayor & his city.

I sure hope the folks of Toledo are not expecting any of the rest of us help defending you. You don't want to do your part in helping to protect this country, you can just defend yourselves. Maybe you could raise your own pacifist army.

We have all seen ignorance, apathy and politics work hand in hand but this is just down right ludicrous. This is just so wrong in so many ways. Mayor what were you thinking? oops, you weren't!

I just wanted to comment that Carty said that the Marines would "freighten" people of downtown Toledo.!!!
What People? When I was young and there was actually people down town shopping etc I would agree. But No there is NO ONE downtown. Lets face it we are talking about Toledo Ohio here. It's NOT like we don't hear gun shots arround.

Federal troops are to protect our borders from foreign invasion, not to practice the implementation of an oppression upon "our" citizens. Just like in Nazi Germany, the troops began to incrementally increase the level of tyranny against the civilians. Pay attention my friends. Has this president not signed numerous legislation that violates our Bill of Rights? Patriot Act, Insurrection Act, NSPD-51&20, etc? Have you read these items? The message to those paying attention should be clear. Read Naomi Wolfs ten steps to close down an open society and google Terror Storm. Urban stages are set up to train the military all over this country. The troops have no business working in our cities. Good call, Mayor!

It's funny that one of the main things our gov't is supposed to do is protect us and this mayor is concerned about their presence. Scared. He just opened the door to a terrorist cell in his city. As to states rights. The Marines didn't come in unannounced. They asked permission and had a previous history of training in the area. The Feds didn't commandeer the town and force them. The states rights were always protected. But the state rights can be superceded in the case of national emergency, they have to be trained how to handle it. So the mayor just cut his and his towns own throat. I for one won't be visiting Toledo any time soon.

I think a single well-placed tactical nuke could take care of Toledo. One for Berkely too:)

It is time to Boycott such cities. If our military is not welcome then let's not spend our money in there. Maybe it is time for the citizens to vote the mayor out. Usually people with this attitude never served in the military. Maybe it is time that every citizen is required to public service (not political office)but acutal service either in the military or if they object to serving in the military, then they should be required to serve the public in other functions such as the Red Cross or other types of service to the community so that they have some sense of commitment to this country. Shame on this Mayor!!!!

The mayor has the right.

He is within the Constitution, whereas the current presidency and military are not.

That also makes him no less patriotic than any of you warmongers.

I am disgusted with this cock-a-mamie mayor. Just another example of the Berkeley mentality. This mayor needs to be recalled and run out of town on a rail. I don't expect that the good people of Ohio are happy with this kind of representation. Give him the job of Garbage Detail where he is more qualified.

Carty wasn't worth anything when I left Toledo, and has proved my decision to leave correct. I hope when Toledo has a disaster and need of reservists the unit commanders tell Carty the city has kicked the military out and must deal with it on their own.

I expect this crap from the loonies in Vermont or California... but OHIO????

Yet Mayor you will be the first to cry out for assistance if and when needed. I for one would not send any of our military personnel to Toledo. You don't appear to deserve it.

It's good to see someone taking a public stand against the continued war against the people of Iraq. Hopefully this will serve as an example to other communities that the military tries to invade.

Toledo over the last few years has been building a great history of resistance to the US war machine. Let this be one more notice to them that they are not welcome here.

Recall the ignorant Mr. Mayor. The city would do better with no mayor at all than ignorance like this at the helm.

This small town politician doesn't want the Marines frightening his residents or inconveniencing his supporters. Ok, fine. When Ooosama and his mama pay Toledo a visit, the Marines can recall that they are not wanted there... and stay home.

Allow me to express my sympathy to the fine citizens of Toledo who have to tolerate such insane behavior by the city's mayor. You don't want to help the US Marines Mr. Mayor? The funny thing is, when the Japanese and Germans were hell bent on destroying America all but a scant 50 years ago the US Marines had no problem helping YOU AND YOURS by fighting in the jungles of Burma, the shores of Tarawa, or the bloodbath of Okinawa. They never complained...not even once. I'm sure you'd like to thank them although many of them have passed away or maybe you'd like to visit the memorial at Iwo Jima to say thanks in person? This is unbelievable...especially since the US now has BOOTS ON THE GROUND in foreign lands in defense of the nation. Damn...lets get over the liitle EGO problem and let the boys come play in your town. This stuff is starting to scare me...the little-twiddly town of Berkeley, CA doesn't suprise me but Toledo does. There were/are untold numbers of war heroes and decorated veterans from Toledo and I'm shocked that the city would disallow training that will in the long run save the lives of soldiers. I would impeach this guy if given the choice.

How does this mayor think we should protect ourselves from the terrorists that want to kill us ?? Don't give me the civil liberties silliness either , 9/11 showed what these heathens think of your civil liberties !! I hope all federal funding is withheld until the people of Toledo vote this fool out of office !!
Ron Malone
Veteran Marine

Another sad example of a knee-jerk liberal Democratic political reponse to help fight terrorism in a manner that might help the military prepare to defend us. Especially at home, in an urban setting when that ultimately does happen someday. Thanks for Nothing Mayor.

Reserve units abroad like the one I am attached to, does not have allot of property to train on. We must outsource to National Guard, Army, Air Force bases, etc to train at. They need to be able to conduct realistic training. Come on, whether the government has installations or not, how much would it cost 1-24 in Michigan to send 200 Marines far from their base/home unit? How much time would be wasted in traveling? Why would they choose Toledo? They are looking at all points. 1-24 is a reserve unit, they only have 2-3 days to do everything needed for that months drill, and then they won't see the company again until next drill. I am an Active duty Marine and have worked with training Reservists every month for the past 4 years. I know how frustrating it is to have a training plan of everything you need to cover and then say a hurricane comes and training is not conducted. That throws the units whole annual training plan off. Same with the Mayor asking the Marines to leave, it was just like a hurricane coming into town and training getting set aside. However they will do what Marines do best, adapt and overcome the problem. It is sad that so many Americans don't think it is okay for any branch of our Military to be seen in America???? What you only want to see us on news networks doing the dirty work? You only want to see us when you need us? Gimme a break, we are not attempting to show Martial law, or to make the public used to anything other than just conducting our training as safe and effective as possible. That is an obtuse comment if I ever heard one. Way to be!

I'm assuming Mayor Finkbeiner (emphasis on "fink") will be reimbursing the taxpayers for the gasoline, time and resources he wasted by turning the Marines around at his city limits?

What annoys me the most is that all of you who made commentaries in support of this ignorant man would be the first ones whining that they didn't get enough help fast enough if their city or state had an emergency that required the assistance of the federal government or the military.

It's real fun to protest and stick your heads in the sand about what is actually needful to run a safe country ... but quite another thing to plan for it. Just go back to sleep, you moochers off the hard work and planning of other people.

The Feds have no authority over city and states in that regard, its guaranteed in the constitution.

For once somebody bothers to follow it.

I can't believe that the marjority of the people in his town feel the same way the mayor does. If our curagous troops can't train in one of the cities it protects, where can they train? What is happening to our country? Are all the elected oficials in this country going "PINKO" on us? If this training would save just one of our boys lives ,is it not worth it? This mayor needs to be recalled. He has no business representing a city in the United States of America.

Hey guys, I am the current owner of conspiracy theory. I do not want the Police the Military or any other government agent or agency in my backyard. However, under this situation I firmly believe that Carty is wrong, wrong and wrong. Toledo is the perfect urban training city. We have the right size buildings and streets. This was set up in advance. Our service men and women need training before they get into real combat and die because they do not know what to do. Shame on Carty. And for one answer, Detroit is not the ideal location for this training. Detroit would be a good place to train for Afghanistan. So let's not be paranoid about our troops, when and if they decide that the Federal Government will take over your city, they will but they will not call. Of course having them in your city is gradualizm so that you get use to them. But nevermind that, let them train.

Michael

I see that after a vast majority of posters in support of the Marines this site is getting a few of the "hate America" coming in support of the Mayor. Sounds like some of them have been listening to too much Coast to Coast radio show or Air America. This training exercise was planned at least a month ahead of time with public notices going out at least a week ahead of time. If the mayor was so out of the loop that he didn't know about it then he doesn't deserve to be a mayor. More likely he, like most politicians in Berkeley and San Franciso, hates the military and wants nothing to do with them at all. That's fine by me. I'll stay away from Toledo until he's been removed from office through legal means.
USS Iwo Jima LPH-2
USS LaSalle AGF-3
SIMA Ingleside, TX

What, pray tell, will the weak kneed mayor do when the Marines are needed to protect his city?

The posters on this matter obviously have yet to get an understanding of what's going on in this country right NOW...Martial law is being instituted, incrementally, and stealthily, a bit here and a bit there, getting the population used to seeing armed troops in the street so we're less likely to panic when the blanks turn to slugs....Think about it. Who belongs on our streets? Us. Where do Marines belong? On the battlefield or on taxpayer financed legitimate practice fields---NOT downtown Toledo or any other US city. They're sending them to real US cities to train because they know that we're all finally learning what the elites have been doing to us all these years since 1913 when they created the constitutionally forbidden Federal Reserve, and they know people are getting mad as hornets about it.

I did a tour in the Marines and Army National Guard Reserves. Urban drill is to prepare soldiers for quelling all of YOU! The Constitution states that the military is not to be used in civilian areas, however, given the illegal laws passed in the last 7 years, the crumbling economy and spiraling dollar..well, you get th e picture, yet? When the markets selves are bare, how are the folks in the cities going to respond? Good luck ya all.

As a Former soldier and current taxpayer, this Mayor is absolutely correct, Americas cities are not training grounds for
urban combat. Our founding fathers must be spinning in the grave at the thought of how close to Fascism this nation has become. We see the comments by all the young people here giving the "Semper Fi" slogan, when they dont even know what it means.. I Imagine most of the comments by our misguided service people here come right from the link to Drudge-report, These poor Propagandized souls forgot what the Oath of being a soldier is. Defending the constitution, and the national security. Not Training to round up Civilians in our own country. Sad as it seems, it maybe civilians fighting against thugs who obviously are in cahoots with Blackwater USA as the Current administrations Praetorian guard. Our armed forces have Bases in over 160 countries as well as all over our United States of America. Someone from the Korea-Vietnam Generation is needed remind these posters of just what our armed forces are for.. I did not fight in Vietnam to have the younger generation act like a bunch of Little robots and turn this country into a police-state while shouting their slogans of Patriotism, Evangelism, and war cries while aiding and abetting a slide to totalitarianism in our country.
Some of you foolish sheep better wake up!

What size do you wear? I would love to send you a nice Pink jacket (Code Pink) with a couple of anti military and and upside down US flag patches, because that is exactly what you represent. The Grand Rapids 1-24th is welcome in South Texas anytime. We'd love their company.

Urban Training is conducted for, urban combat, riot control, disaster relief, emergency response and so on.

Actual urban terrain is better than simulation. Actual co-ordination with city facilities, police, fire and administration is better than role-playing.

Training facility use is at a premium for active duty military and Reserve and Guard units being deployed. Reserve and Guard training time is alway at a premium, they have one weekend a month two weeks a year when not deployed.

As for why Toledo, why not. It's just below Detroit it was used before, co-ordination was made.

For a nation that "SUPPORTS THE TROOPS" I find some of the responses surprisingly hostile and paranoid.

You don't want troops in your city. Watts Riots Los Angeles, CA (1965) National Guard. Detroit Riots (1967) 82nd Airborne. LA riot (1992) 7th Infantry Division. Hurricane Andrew (1992) National Guard. Katrina emergency relief, National Guard. New York snow storms Feb 2007, National Guard.

In an emergency Federal troops are not only wanted they're demanded, Wouldn't you like them trained.

The mayor and those who agree with him should move to Berkley, CA, where they would be amongst their own. This is the height of stupidity. As a veteran, and someone who travels frequently through Toledo, I have spent my last dollar there.

Astonishing the vinegar that can get poured on you, when you do the right thing.

Astonishing also that there exists the supposition the Marines are supposed to train in town.

I mean ... Hello? What country are these people from? I am 45. I have NEVER been pushed aside so the Military can practice war in town. I am certain I would recall the event because of the fight that would ensue. It would have been what is called, "Spirited". First in the street, then in the Courtroom. Third Amendment and Posse Comitatus. 18 USC section 1385.

I wish Mayor Finkbeiner to hear me thank him for standing up for Democracy.

Kertis Engle
Been there : Sonarman, USS Haddo, SSN-604.

When I read the headine from this story, my first thought was that Ohio had been invaded by the socialists from Berkley. What an utter disgrace! I hope to hell that someone in Washington does the same thing to Toledo that is contemplated for Berkley... cut off the federal funds and let them twist in the wind.
Oh... and before you get your shorts in a bind and tell me, a resident of Florida, to keep my nose out of your business, I grew up in Celina, Ohio and spent the 38 years of my life there. I NEVER in my wildest dreams expected this sort of liberal drivel to come from the Buckeye state.

This is coming from the guy that wanted to move all the deaf people next to the airport. Same guy that breaks the law by bringing his dog to work in a Government building that obviously displays signs of no animals allowed in the building. The same guy that was just cited for parking in a handicap parking spot. Yes, all the same moron.

Someone had said that training in Toledo has no comparison to Iraq. You are correct, but what you miss is the military is a TEAM. Any kind of training that Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen can get is training that can not be replaced. Wether it be training in the desert, swamp, or inner city it is all valuable training. I am a Disabled Vet, 10 years in the Navy. I know all about military training. I was never asked to leave an area during an exercise.

I am ashamed of carty! I have recently moved out of Lucas County due to the fact that I did not want my tax dollars supporting an idiot like this. I gladly spend my money in Wood county now, more republicans, less BS. carty needs to move to berkely to be with his people. He can hate on the Military out there and still fit in.

As folks who frequent the Toledo area, we can help out the mayor.

If our brave troops are not welcome in Ohio, I'll do the only thing I can to protest the mayor's ill-conceived action.

We'll just stay away from Toledo, altogether, and let the local merchants get rid of the mayor when they notice their sales volume dwindle.

How about a shoppers' boycott until the mayor apologizes, covers the expense, and invites them back?

Thank you for standing up for the Constitution and doing the job you were voted into office to perform. Pay NO attention to those whom have been brain-washed by Faux-News and the rest of the corporate-controlled spin machine; whose job it is to scare Americans into giving up their civil liberties because of the pseudo boogy-man. Wake up people. Google: US Concentration Camps, UN Trains, and Active Denial Systems for a taste of what's to come. All the White House needs is another major false-flag operation to pull the trigger on all the "reforms" that our glorious Fuerher has enacted; mostly by secret signing statements. The worst is yet to come I'm afraid.

I salute this mayor for taking a stand. We are already on our way to becoming a police state. The mayor knows this. If YOU haven't figured it out yet, just wait, you will, but by then it will be too late. Enough of this military mind-set! This is NOT what the Founding Fathers of this nation wanted us to become. But here we are. And all the idiots that have posted here prior to this saying we should "support our military" are cowards. They are afraid to stand up against the enemy within. The enemy here is the growing military-industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about. Remember him? He would be appalled at what we have become and ashamed of most of you "patriotic" Americans. Get a clue, people.

The mayor seems to think that the fine citizens of Toledo would be afraid of our own military pulling into town. I think that it is a good thing for the citizens of any city to see their military train or ride into town. They are not there to harm American citizens but to protect and to die if necessary for the citizens of this great country. Even cockroaches like the "honorable" mayor.

He probably would give a warm welcome and a parade down Main St. Toledo to a delegation from the "religion of peace". Send the troops to my town, we'll have a barbecue when they are through with their maneuvers.

...without the further militarization of our cities. Big picture, people. Submachine guns at NASCAR events? Humvees at school field days? Large secretive "FEMA" exercises in American towns? Sounds a lot more like the Russia of our youth than the America we hoped for. I say good for him - strong local rule means you have politicians accountable to you, not some far-off federal bureacrat shuffling papers in Washington. While I'm sure there is much more to this story than being reported (personality conflict? maybe the Mayor felt slighted last time they did this?), it doesn't even matter - your mayor is doing his job - exercising the powers you voted to him, and is not just a blind servant of the feds.

That mayor should be ashamed of himself. Frightened people? Better to be frightened if we did not have a military to protect us from the real thing. Shame on you mayor for disrespecting our military.

Mr. Mayor you may have the right to kick the Marines out of your city. HOWEVER, the rest of us in the USA have the right not to help you in future crisis. DO NOT SEND PLEAS FOR HELP. We'll remember you. Boycot Toledo? I don't really know what your city has to offer, except people like you, A typical old f...t!

I am a resident of the Toledo Ohio area and have been all of my life. Its sad that the mayor is embarrassing us again and doesn't seem to grasp the true reasons these soldiers need to practice urban warfare. The mayors excuse for not having them was that he supposedly had complaints from residents that it "frightened" them hearing gunfire in dowtown,However according to our local police here there was never even one complaint filed by any resident regarding past training exercises. It seems to me the only person who has a problem with it is the mayor. Maybe, he should realize that having the marines here is an honor not an inconvience for the residnets of Toled.

The Marines who entered Hue in 1968 were not trained in urban warfare and it cost them. Is this what the mayor is hoping for? Does he want Marines to die so he can prove that war is bad? Is this a form of premeditated murder of our own people? Semper Fi

What a disgrace for your community! I'm always amazed at how some people treat our military as if they are people from some other planet. They're OUR brothers, sisters, daughters, sons, fathers and mothers! Whether you agree or disagree with their mission, they're at war and training is what gives them the hope of returning home safely. Instead of taking a little pride in the use of your city for such a worthy cause, you've turned them away. Sorry for the inconvenience Toledo!!!

Mr. Finkbeiner and Mr. Ng. Are these 2 AH's Americans? These moonbats sound like some European socialsts or communists. Notice I didn't captialize.

This Mayor of Toledo is the lowest form of citizen of the United States of America. A cockroach deserves more protection than he does. What would his stand be if Toledo was invaded with terrorists?

So The marines are gonna frighten the poor souls of Toledo? Well shucks I hope some islamo terrorists don't decimate Toledo with a few suitcase nukes.

It's time to recall Mayor Finkbeiner ala Grey Davis in California. What a national disgrace-Americans of Toledo send this revolting sissy packing!

Hmmm....the tried and true process known as "recall" comes to mind. Why wait for an election?

this sounds like the FINK town in Calif. well the heat is on now the enemy know wher to hit because the UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES wont be there. good luck Berkley and Toledo, you just cut off the hand that protecks your butts

RR Haas, ENC/DV
US Navy Ret

Why doesn't the mayor move to San Francisco and seek higher office. Nothing seems more anti-american to me than an attitude that he can thumb his nose at the people that protect him and this country.

Mayor Finkbeiner is 100% correct. Why should he let the Marines be trained in Toledo and then go to Iraq to kill people? That would give Toledo a bad name.
Those marines are from Grand Rapids, Mich. Why can't they be trained in Grand Rapids or may be Ann Arbor, or Detroit? Why travel a couple of hundred miles crossing State line ... wasting tax dollars?

The mayor just another unamerican liberal.
And Toledo citizen are wrong for allowing him to do that.
What ever happen to the Red, White and Blue Mudhens of long ago? Toledo use to be a two fist-ed America city, what a shame you would stand for this and for what you have become.

To paraphrase Kirk Douglas' character, "Bums like Carty Finkbeiner are with us always. Guys like these young Marines only come along once in a while."

What can this mayor be thinking? Everybody knows America will not be safe until Marines are carrying out regular urban warfare exercises in every US city center and other cities around the world as may be required. My only recommendation is that live ammo should definnitely be used.

As someone else mentioned- just a shining example of the secular progessive movement in our country.

I wonder how many times the military has been used to help in flooding there in Toledo or maybe snow storms? Fortunately for the citizens there, our military live by a code which would not allow them to not show up on principal. They would never even that as an option.

Seems the citizens ofthis city should look at their priorities and see if they need to be changed. And make sure it happens.

Cant we just ship this guy, and the rest of his kind to a small island...they can defend themselves and the rest of us americans can have a solitude life without them. Maybe we could send him to France??

And yes....lets send him a bill for that transport and time of the military.

We should all give thanks to our troops! They have done a great job and risk their lives for us and the pathetic people like this mayor.

Wallace Wharton's comment that Marines should practice out in the country side shows his total lack of current day warfare. Ask any combat soldier and he will tell you the most deadly combat is inside the cities.
I think Fink...whatever just wanted to make a name for himself and Toledo, Ohio. So, sorry for the folks in Toledo who are saddled with this arse.

Under the Consitution the Mayor has the right to make that decision. Saying that I hope that all federal funding is cut form the city. If our federal troops are not welcome then neither should the money. Next time there is a disaster I believe all federal troops and equipment should respect the mayors feelings and stay out. I mean after Katrina and you had all these looters why would you want armed troops in the city's???? All these people want their cake and to eat it to

If Toledo does not want our Marines training there, I certainly will not ever spend any time there on vacation, shopping or anything else. I hope other current and former servicemen will do likewise. Training is how our servicemen become proficient at their military jobs. It is an essential part of keeping them ready to defend our country when needed.
Sincerely
Richard Connor
Vietnam Veteran

I hope the Mayor is voted out of office. What a disgrace.

Surely the MI marines could have used Detroit real estate to practice urban warfare...
Or did Kwame (upstanding public servant) Kilpatrick deny such a request?
Good luck

As an American citizen and Vietnam Disabled Veteran and as an Honorable Discharge United Sates Marine, I am appalled that you would not allow the Marines to train in your City. They did train in Columbia, South Carolina a few years back and our city welcomed them as we welcome all our military. These Marines put their lives on the line everyday to protect your and my freedoms. For you and your city to refuse the Marines the access your city is just absurd. When they came to our city they flew in over our buildings and dropped men via ropes to the buildings so as to simulate having to remove terrorists from our government buildings. I was so proud to see these young professionals practicing for something that we all pray won't ever happen. As a citizen of South Carolina I am sure I would not be welcome in Toledo as I am a United States Marine. It's ok though because, we welcome all our military and even citizens of your fine city.

Sincerely,
James E. Smith
USMC

If the us is ever invaded I hope toledo is the last place the marines defend. I take that back. I hope it is the second to last place. Berkely should be the last!

Just because the mayor doesnt want to have the military practicing on the city streets, you are going to crucify him? What I see going on in this country is self destruction and I don't want the military ramping up to squash its own citizens. Bush is already made it clear that he is ready to take over as a dictator and this falls right in line with his thoughts. Next time they come to town, it wont be practice, it will be for real.

"Estimated the total cost of the aborted training exercise, including travel, at roughly $10,000".

Fink should be forced to pay this out of his own pocket!

Gawd what a loser.

Once again, our mayor has proven himself to be the village idiot, unworthy of public servatude.

As if telling deaf people to move near the airport wasnt enough..he now pictures himself "commander and chief"...

King carty the Fink.

Reading the comments of the "no visible means of any support" crowd, it just reinforces how far Left and gone we are as a nation. These Marines from Grand Rapids are not "programmed killers," "tripped out drug users," and all those things those on the Left love to portray. In this case, they happen to be guys from Michigan who work as lawyers, at manufacturing jobs, state or local police and firemen, etc. If drilling in a different area with different sights, sounds and so on helps those that are protecting us train, what in the world is there to fear? We would hope the police train and we hope the fire and rescue departments train, so what's up with this Mayor? Let me tell you--it is the People's Republic of Toledo mentality that has driven just about everyone (including me)from a town that is continually tone deaf and always selects the wrong way. The Joe Stalin playbook approach to running a city has driven it into the dirt--and there is no one left in that city that can see it. Sometimes I wish the Left just had its way--let the Navy park its carrier, let the AF land its planes, let the Army and Marines pull over to the side of the road and catch the bus home. Then when our daughters are shot dead in the stadium for looking at a guy and people are beheaded for thinking forbidden thoughts, don't go knocking on their door. At that point, these flower children will either have to fight or roll like a coward. I suspect Carty would roll...

Shouldn't the mayor have been required to have a city council vote before making a decision? If not, wouldn't all mayors across America be allowed to do whatever they wanted? Where is the check and balance that keeps this sort of thing from happening without a majority agreement?

What a goof! Let me correct myself. What an "elected goof" who probably has never been in the military, or understand the freedoms he has as "mayor". Too bad he gets paid with tax dollars. Some public servant he is, prejudice and all.

For those of you who think the marines or any other part of the military dont need to use a real city for urban training......YOU NEED TO WAKE UP!

Remember, anything can happen and we never know where our forces will be. The greater the diversity of locations available for our soldiers to train in, the better... Use your heads folks!!!!

I am guessing you have no idea how we got this country.... It was our soldiers!

Oh....and I bet you find yourselves to be intellectually elite... Give me a break!

As a former Navy Recruiter, Toledo, OH (98-00), and as a full-time staff member of the NAVMARCORESCEN, Perrysburg, OH (90-93), I can see that Mayor Finkbeiner hasn't changed much. I find it fascinating that the people of Toledo keep him around. But after all, it is a very heavy Democrat population.

The Marines have no busyness in Toledo. Send in a flight of B-52's. All their problems would be solved.

Remeber when those planes crashed into buildings and killed a whole lot of people? We were scared out of our minds and still have nightmares. I have no doubt more attacks will come our way. So why not allow our soldiers who are willing to sacrafice their lives while the rest of us enjoy our television and suvs to practice combat in order to provide more security for the rest of us.

He needs to be impeached, dethroned, removed now! If you don't support our troops, president, and country, move far, far away because I'm tired of people like you. Either step up to the plate or get out. Berkeley was and is a huge embarrassment to California. It looks like Ohio now has their very own. I feel sorry for the citizens of that state because I do feel your embarrassment along with my own. San Francisco and Berkeley need to fall off the map.

I've always heard that Carty is a damned fool. This just verifies it.

THE TRAINING WITH BLANK AMMO USING THE URBAN STREETS OF THE UNITED STATES TO TRAIN ON, AND USING THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRAINING GAINED WITH USING BLANK AMMO IS KEEPING THE REAL WAR WITH REAL AMMO OFF OF THE STREET OF THE UNITED STATES.

WAKE UP MAYOR

GENE SMALLWOOD
USMC RETIRED

There are two important threads occurring in this discussion. One appears to be the mayor expressing his perosonal political views about the USMC conducting legitimate training in his town. As the mayor, he is entitled to deny them use of the town and its resources, although the transparent insincerity of his reasoning is reprehensible.

The other critical thread is the lack of understanding by the few supporters of his decision about military training and the constrainst placed upon reserve units. Reserve unit commanders are as responsible as their active duty counterparts for readiness and training of their members. Use of a nearby locality is almost always more cost effective than extensive travel to a dedicated range.

Less than one percent of the US population is engaged with the armed forces. The civilian population has few chances to interact with or understand the mission or makeup of the modern military. BRAC closings and consolidations have further removed the connection between local communities (like Toledo, berkely and others) from the military community.

The mayor had a chance to enhance the relationship between the citizens who have volunteered to go in harms way and the citizens who will send them (the general population). I will not delve into the tremendous value the venue that Toledo offered these Marines for a training exercise. Work in an active urban environment makes substantial difference versus any MOUT - typically reserved for higher risk (live fire) activities.

Spend some time recalling the images of US tanks conducting war games in the cities and fields of West Germany during the Cold War. I am sure most germans considered the events inconvenient, however, their real fear came from the forty odd Soviet divisions poised just across the border.

As a serving CO of a security unit, I can only shake my head ruefully at the "black helicopter" conspiracy crowd.

Don't worry, the mayor does not need the marines. When the terrorist come calling, he will just tell them to leave. No problem.

On a more serious note: how many other cities in the US have invited the marines to train there? probably not very many. So shame on all those mayors too, right?

In response to "Neo Conned", please, do yourself and the Left a favor by leaving your mindless "points" out of this discussion. Practicing for urban warfare on our own people? Military dictatorship? Al-Qaeda doesn't exist? While I believe that the Marines should have been allowed to train in Toledo, I also acknowledge that there is most likely an intelligent argument out their opposing their use of the city. Clearly, "Neo Conned", yours is not it.

As a retired Navy vet (Vietnam-Lebanon) and son of a Marine, I find the actions of this teabag Toledo mayor as disgusting as the pinko's of his ilk in San Francisco and Berkeley.

Y'all should cowboy up 'n throw this moronic wuss out of office ASAP!

These operations are done to condition the American people to accept soldiers running around in their cities as normal. It's all ultimately directed at We the People. As the wars and economy continue to go bad, more and more civil unrest will erupt here at home. The Feds are simply getting ready for it.

I never cease to be amazed at the huge number of terrified morons, who have bought into "The War On Terrah", hook, line and sinker. Most of them probably still have their duct tape and plastic, "just in case". This just goes to prove, if you keep spewing the same lies, over and over, you can fool most of the people, most of the time.
All of the warmongering idiots, trashing Toledos mayor, probably still have their Bush/Cheney 04 stickers on their F-150s

I thought only the City council of Berkeley, California was stupid enough to disrespect our Marines...guess I was wrong.
I guess they grow 'em just as stupid in Toledo!

"If Toledo still runs people out of town on a rail and/or tars & feathers them, then you should be at the top of that list.

Same on you, shame on you, shame on you. You are nothing more than a petty little tin-horn mayor.

I hope you can make it in the private sector, because I don't feel you're long for public service."

No matter what the mayors of Berkley or Toledo feel, think or believe in, The United States Marine Corps will always protect them.

We have always made the supreme sacrifice even for those of you who believe that peace needs no military and that code pink will save us all from foreign invasions.

No matter how you treat us, no matter how many insults you throw at us, no matter your political affiliation, The Marine Corps will always stand ready to defend you.

We have in the past and will continue to fight for you even if your actions hurt us. To those of you who truly appreciate The United States Armed Forces we thank you and look forward to your continued support.

To my Marine brothers and sisters - cry no more, for when they need us they will call us.

Former United States Marine

No doubt the mayor has a (D)alongside his name. Whenever someone has a (D) alongside his/her name, it implies a propensity for loathing the military in every shape and manner imaginable. I think its a throwback to the Vietnam flower children era. Whereas a (D) started the Vietnam war, (D)s try to shovel blame for all of it onto Richard Nixon (R), who actually ended it rather than place blame on the saintly and beloved Kennedy with a JOhnson twist. Childish (D)s do not understand where their right rail against things like military maneuvers come from. Do you, (D)s? Why it comes from the military itself. Take out your crayons now Mr. Mayor and draw us all a picture of where you would be without the Marines.

Anyone old enough or historically aware knows that during World War II, Americans were asked to make sacrifices to strengthen the war effort on the home front. And they did, as a matter of patriotism and pride. In Toledo, apparently, Mayor Finkbeiner feels that having Marines train (hello: "playing war"? Talk about oxymorons!) in his fair city over a weekend is asking for too much sacrifice from his citizenry. A citizenry he obviously believes is largely illiterate and uninformed, considering a press release had been issued well in advance of the scheduled exercise. Would the Marines be just as unwelcome should terrorists strike Toledo?

Carty has just went entirely too far this time. He's a true embarrassment not only to the residents of Toledo, but to the Patriotic Population as a whole.
His actions and LACK of judgement are a direct result of his well known childish, temper tantrums. His whole focus was that "HE" was not informed. For crying out loud, the arrangemnts had been made with The Toledo Police!! Carty should have taken the "communication" issues up AFTERWARDS. Not deny the US Marines the abilty to practice here. Any Mayor, with his/her cities best interests at heart would consider it a PRIVELEGE to host such an event!!
Carty- Do the right thing for ONCE and Apologize or Resign!!!!!!!!!!

Thank God he had the nerve to stop them from practicing on his town...what type of fool lets invaders practice on them before they take their town? I hope you fools who support this enjoy your stay at the Halliburton Hilton in your city.

Seems to me that the federal government should come before what the mayor wants. If a disaster was to occur in that city, the military would be the first to respond. WE are thankful for our men and women who put their lives on the line for ALL of us..AND I am sure he is NOT speaking for all the people, just a minor few..

with 80000 gang members in LA you should be demanding they train there.

People who think mayor was wrong are actually frightening clueless about the world they live in and the culture the Founding Fathers gave them in the constitution, and why they set things up as they did.

The Marines are not "protectors" of anyone! They are soldiers trained for WAR, not peace! The Founding Fathers of this country knew that standing armies among the people were very dangerous to the liberties of the people. All you have to do is see this dangerous principle in action is take a hard look at any number of African countries.

Don't you get it? This is an attempt to train Marines to practice urban warfare and get them acclimated to doing it AT HOME ON THE AMERICAN POPULACE.

If you don't understand that, then you would have loved Nazi Germany too.

The mayor is exercising his proper authority, and protecting the city at the same time. It has nothing to do with the Marines and their "service," or what you personally think about them. And get over that "serving their country" bit, please! Go read General Smedley Butler's "War is a Racket" before you decide you know everything there is to know. General Butler had considerable experience in the American military, and he tells a very revealing story. Of course, if you think that no corruption exists in America, just keep your head buried.

I would vote this mayor in every time, just for this one act of standing up for the people against the federal government's military intrusion! And make no mistake, that is what it is. KUDOS to him!

A lot of commentors here seem paranoid about the need to defend American cities from invasion. The only reason to be concerned about foreigners invading the US if you watch too much TV.

Think about it. The last time we were in invaded was 1812. And guess what? It was the British that invaded us.

The people that demand a military presence in American cities are the ones living in (unjustified) fear.

Well I see were all the brain-dead goats post.

The mayor did the right thing this is programming and mind control to get the brain dead goats ready for marshal law and the camps.

Have any of you watched the Alex Jones films.

The country is going down the tubes and you people better smarten up before its to late.

Very poor planning by the city government. The impression it leaves on the good city of Toledo is not deserved. Some people still don't realize the country is at war and the Marines need to train. People of Toledo when the next election comes send the Mayor packing.

I have not been in the service, but support those that lay their lives on the line for us to lead a safe and normal life. There can only come good out of letting the marines practice in buildings. Hell, maybe they could do it jointly with police in preparation for the day when we are attacked again. I will never spend another penny in Toledo, either....

I live in Toledo and what the mayor did was correct in every aspect. There had been no publicity that this event was even going to occur. He promptly put a stop to public panic. Why did the marines have to come all the way here to train? Whats wrong with staying in Michigan?

In conclusion, I would like to stress that I would be highly alarmed if I went downtown and saw the military stationed there, fully armed, and setting off amunition. I wouldnt have known it was "blanks".

Marines are SUPPOSED to be scary! This idiot can thank these and former Marines and ALL military that hizzoner can make any stupid statement he wants. Regardless of the fact thhat he may have run his last campaign!

The story doesn't reveal the political affiliation of the mayor...but, if I were a betting man, I would wager he is a Democrat....the anti-military, anti-American party

sounds like the mayor is an idiot

No surprise here! Another example of someone who cares not for the safety of our men and women in the service who are willing to sacrifice there lives. He
gets fat at public expense and does nothing to help
protect this country from self indulgent me firsts.
HE IS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF THE IDEA THAT A COUNTRY
GETS THE GOVERNMENT IT DESERVES!

Way to go Mayor! We dont need practice for the Military State! And of course, the Police State is more than a willing accomplice.

Reader, leaf through the reponses here and categorise them as I did:

1.) Pro reponses written coherently and to the point
2.) Con responses written with flames, and opinion, and attacking others

Which response cries "flaming liberal"?

I think this Mayor represents very clearly the disrespect for our Military held by the majority of democrats in this country. My personal opinion? Impeach him immediately. It is obvious that he is unable to think about repercussions. I am confident that he has never worn this country's uniform. Shame on him!

It is difficult to comprehend how a politician could on his own deny the brave men and women of our armed forces the opportunity to carry out training that could possibly save their lives when they are asked to defend our country.
This is especially upsetting after learning that the Marines had conducted this training numerous times in the past under other administrations! If one of these Marines is wounded or killed because he or she was denied this vaulable training opportunity...the blood will be on the hands of this gutless mayor!

The Marines should practice in Rome, NY. Rome is a very patriotic city (unlike Toledo) and there are Zero people downtown ever. It is like a ghost town. There are tumbleweeds blowing with the help lake effect winds through the dead and dreary downtown.

So much for supporting our troops....these young men and women put their lives on the line to protect our way of life and this is the thanks they get....

When I saw the headline on Saturday's front page I was incensed. How could Carty give the Marines the boot with no notice? Did he even think about the waste of federal time and money? Or the time of those Marines away from their families?

But should anyone in Toledo be surprised? This from the guy who wanted to solve the noise problem at Toledo Express Airport by moving all of the deaf people there. Good grief! I'm so ashamed! To the world; if you think Carty is bad, please understand we didn't have much to choose from.

In the rarified air that we presently live in, we seek leadership that can give us a sense of security….especially after the events of 9-11. Most rational people understand that 9-11 was AN ACT OF WAR. An act that was extraordinary in its scope and magnitude. On that day we didn’t just lose nearly 3000 souls, we lost our sense of security. Well…anyway, most of us lost our sense of security.

What we are witnessing now from this Toledo mayor, is the “under-belly” of America, revealing its cowardice and treachery. Carty Finkbeiner is merely a symptom of a disease in America…in fact, a kind of cancer…which we woefully have allowed to fester amongst us. Sooner or later, we are going to have to address this disease.

Islam is not unclear about their intentions. There are few if any conflicts within their intent. It is a matter of survival…plain and simple. Either you see it or you don’t. The cowards see. That’s why they hide behind the law and concepts of “freedom”. American laws and freedoms are not a suicide pact as the cowards and traitors would convolute.

It doesn’t matter if you are a liberal or Conservative, democrat or Republican…if you ain’t here. We are in the fight of all fights. Time to wake up America.

Urban Warfare training in preparation for who, the American populous? Good for the mayor- training s/b on
on the bases/facilities.

Just another example to acclimate us to a military dictatorship. Oooooh, Al Qaeda gonna get ya- oh i forgot there is no such animal, just false flags prepping us for Haliburton camps.

To those of you who are against having the Military Train in US cities: A well trained force will save lives, not just of the soldiers, but of innocents in the area they are fighting. Think about history. WWII involved a heavy loss of civilian lives, and that trend continued through the '70s. When the Military changed over to volunteers, there was an emphasis placed on preservation of life of non-combatants. The average soldier/marine today will go out of their way to save the life of a non-combatant. Letting the Marines train in an unfamiliar environment, with people walking around who have to be kept out of harms way prepares the Marines for what they may face on deployment. Despite what the some would have us believe, the military does not "kill em all, and let God sort them out." The men and women in uniform have all volunteered to help our country with their lives. WHAT have YOU DONE, MR MAYOR?

all you "patriotic, free-DUMB and DUMB-ocracy lovin' Merkins!

The mayor is a fricking joke. There is no central business district in downtown Toledo. Just a bunch of abandon buildings. There is no one to scare, there is not even any homeless people. The mayor is on another one of his ego trips just like the one he had when he wanted to move the deafless people near the airport. Because they would not be bothered by the noise. This slaps in the face to the very people who defend our people and give their lives to idiots like this. Semper Fi! Carty

As a former Marine and yes one who was honorably discharged. I see no reason for this training in a civilian area. When is the american public going to wake up. All military members take an oath not to fire on us civilians, Now we have scenarios where military pilots are tasked with maybe having to shoot down american airliners, killing how many americans to stop one or more terrorists. The TSA's and FAA's dog and pony show makes it almost impossible to get somewhere in a resonable amount of time while flying. Homeland security is a joke. Our ports and borders are wide open. The federal government is running up huge deficits offering freedoms to people who don't care about us. freedoms we are losing bit by bit everyday. Stop the madness. How about putting the Marines on our borders they will see plenty of action there.
James Conick, Maryland

After reading the details of this unfortunate incident, I can't help but think that this is just another in a long line of Carty's ready-fire-aim decisions. I can only wonder if Hizzoner will have qualms about inviting the National Guard to Toledo the next time the city is buried by a blizzard, or will their presence just "frighten" the citizens?

Toledo has a long history of supporting the troops, and a bone headed decision like this sends the entirely wrong message to the rest of the state, and the rest of the country. To the brave soldiers of the Marine Corps, as a former Toledo resident, you have my apologies. Perhaps there is another rundown Rust Belt city that will be more accommodating to the needs of those who sacrifice of themselves to defend our nation.

Could this be preparation for the Democrat's plan to disarm the American populace once they take over in January 2009?

I'm curious why none of you supporters of this training offered your street, your neighborhood or your town for the Marines? And just a reminder....Dick Cheney had about 7 deferments during Vietnam, stating he had "something better to do." As did Rumsfield, and Bush was in the Air National Guard "Champagne Unit," where he would never, ever see combat.

Excuse me, I am not from Ohio and I am certainly not a Democrat, but I agree with the Mayor's decision to not allow war games being played in downtown Toledo. I support our troops wholeheartedly, but I do NOT support the "soft terrorization" of our own people in this country by our military or law enforcement. It was said earlier and I agree that the military has plenty of other places to practice their war games and an urban or suburban area is not one of them. 9/11 has made far too many people in this country blindly agree to forfeit too many of our rights and freedoms for the expense of whatever "safety" they think we are gaining from this sort of creeping fascism. You people who demonize this mayor seem to agree with living in a police state. Sieg Heil!

There is a very good reason why Toledo was selected! It ALREADY resembles a war zone, so they wont mess anything up! Next time a tornado tears up an Ohio city, if I was the local National Guard/ Army Reserve commander, I would tell them "sorry we cant come to your rescue, we arnt welcome in Ohio!".

I will make an ad hominen attack on the Mayor. What part of Canada did he hide in during Vietnam? Aside from that,the comments by Rodney Hampton and Wallace Wharton are out of touch with reality. The I/24 should not have to travel to 29Palms, Pendleton or LeJeune to train. Additionally,training in the desert is not urban warfare. If Mr. Mayor did not hide in CN, I apologize, but he sure acts like he did..

I am a 62 year old Viet Nam vet that always voted democrat until about 16 years ago.This is one reason among many that I no longer vote democrat.My party deserted me.

Maybe Toledo should boot its Mayor out of town. What a liberal piece of crap! I am sick of these idiots making headlines at the cost of the military.

What is in this mans head? What happaned to supporting our troops? And the person in the article that said if what they learn in toledo saves a life is right and it will help them keep themselves alive as well. Id welcome there men and woman to train in my nieborhood, my backyard even my house if i knew it was helping them, i really think this person that is suppose to be leading the people of toledo should maybe step aside and let a proud supporter take over. Regardless of his reasoning which sounds like a ton of garbage to me, is totally unexceptable! And one last thing the person that said "former marine" is wrong there are no former marines or ex-marines. Once a marine, always a marine! Thanks

We have become a "Planet of the Apes".

Why don't the Marines train in a neighborhood where real criminals are, like the one around Pennsylvania Avenue!

We not Americans anymore. We're comrades of the New World Order. Remember Black Water Gestapo pointing guns at New Orleans residents and telling them to abandon they're homes, "or else".

When all the fake patriot retirees condemning the mayor for being American run out of their stimulus quarters and oil food and medication become to expensive to pay for because our treasure is covering the billion bucks a day + interest to pay for this fiasco of false patriotism find themselves in a pinch and begin to complain - those well trained Marines you're yupping it up for will be pointing guns at you and telling you to shut up.

Just how proud will you feel when you realize your vain gullibility, lack of common sense and petty pretense at patriotism has turned on you? What you gonna do when the Marine's gun is pointing at you when you complain about being kicked out of the hospital - or 20/Gallon Gasoline.

Wake up - you're next.

If that wimpy liberal Mayor thinks the Marines "scare" his people I wonder how "scared" he and his people would be if terrorist would visit his city?
That Mayor ought to be ashamed of himself.
I would suggest strongly that this liberal Mayor should step down and move to Berekely, California. Semper Fi

He's right, the Marines should not waist their time in Toledo. Let the Air Force use it for bombing practice. Toledo? Please!

There are plenty of training places available. The reason for this is intimidation and conditioning of the public. Martial law will be enacted, there are already hundreds of Civilian Prison Labor Camps around the country manned and ready to fill....your tax dollars at work folks. Halliburton/K.B.R. etc., has made billions to enslave you with your own money. True the police have lost their way. We live in a police state already. Certain private security firms have been authorized/deputized by the F.B.I. to shoot to kill when marshal law goes into effect.They can and will ask questions later. The government documents for all I have said are available for all to see. They do not do these type of things to not implement them. Our country is being run by murderous psychopaths that have no respect for your country and it's people. Get ready for the upcoming draft and the revolution that wil follow. WAKE UP AMERICA, the enemy is right here at home....do not be distracted!!!!!

The US Military is a criminal organization that violates the basic laws of humanity and civilized behavior. They rape children and kill their families to cover up their crimes. They torture innocent people and kill millions in an illegal war.

Some say we should "support our troops", probably the same type of folks as the Germans who supported their SS during WWII. What most forget is that there is no draft - they aren't "our troops", they are just a bunch of mercenaries looking for an easy buck.

Hats off to Mayor Finkbeiner! At last, someone standing up to the military-prison-industrial complex and saying, "No". Folks, there's only one reason the Marines "need" to train in these Urban Assault exercises, and that is to violate YOUR civil rights when the Smirking Chimp or whomever occupies the Oval Office after him decides to declare martial law unconstitutionally. These thugs, along with privatized goons from the likes of Wackenhut and Blackwater will be the ones going door to door and attemting (if you let them) to sieze your guns (remember what happened in New Orleans after Katrina?) and most likely transfer you and your family to a Halliburton constructed and run concentration camp, oops sorry, detainee facility.

1. I as an American patriot support our military.
2. I also as an American patriot suppport our duly elected officials.
3. As lond as both of these groups representing our collective will, don't overstep their consitutional bounds.
4. We have and continually see the elected officals overstep their bounds.
5. We have seen the military overstep thier bounds too.
6. The people are only being realistic when they fear the power of both of these groups.
7. The elected officals can get removed from power by election when they go too far. Unfortunately, most of the time they don't.
8. The military is only checked by their respect for this country and its elected officals.
9. The mayor was in his right to do what he did. The military was right in obeying his directive. Thank God the country still works.
10. As far as training the tip of the sword in US cities, I don't think it's wise. I don't really see any benefit that overrides the negative impact it has on the people. I would think the military/federal agency "operations" in Waco, Ruby Ridge and Miami would make these desk riding generals and agency officials think twice about the long-term effect on the populace.
11. So I think they should train on a military base, and not in peoples backyards. Why give the miltia movements a recruiting tool?

Hi All,
*
If the mayor of Toledo, OH is not comfortable with the members of the United Stated Marines performing MOUT drills in his city with local Police and other authorities. I will chooses to visit and spend my time and money elsewhere.
*
Semper Fi Marines
*
USN_Retired, Mason, OH

As a former Marine, Vietnam, training is more often than not the difference between living and dying in combat. Mayor Finkbeiner's actions are paramount to trying to kill our Marines and to giving aid and comfort to our enemy. At any earlier time in American history Finkbeiner would be found guilty of treason and suffer the consequences of a military tribunal whatever they may have been.

Gee Carty, you sure know how to make friends. When the doo doo hits you in the fan, who ya' gonna call - the ACLU?
Way to be an real American hero.
MH

Im not sure what citizens would be frighened. Carty has long ago chased most people out of Toledo because of his high tax and anti-business strategy. Has anyone seen downtown Toledo lately? There isn't any citizens to scare! But there plenty of empty buildings to practice in. I like many citizens purposly live and work outside the city limits. I must apologize to our true American hero's for Toledo's low IQ mayor.

Martial Law ??? Give me a break.

Please tell my son that his "Urban Training" was a waste of time. Having come back from Iraq last November I'm sure he would beg to differ with you on that.

The Mayor...Alfa-Hotel indeed.

Go Devil Dogs

IT IS GETTING SO THAT THESE MAYORS, COUNCILMEN, OF CITIES ETC ARE BANNING MARINE CORP UNITS ROM THEIR AREA. THESE ARE THE SAME ARINES THAT PUT THEIR LIFE ON THE LINE TO ALLOW THESE AFORE MENTIONED THE RIGHT TO EXPRESS THEMSELVES. IT LOOKS LIKE TOLEDO WANTS TO FASHION ITSELF AFTER BERKLELY CALIF. WATCH WHAT HAPPENS AT BERKLELY AND YOU WILL SEE SIMILAR ACTION IN TOLEDO. THIS IS THE LAND OF THE FREE AND IT IS THAT WAY BECAUSE OF MARINES AND ALL THE OTHER MILITARY SERVICES. SEMPER-FI

A INACTIVE MARINE FROM 1952-1957

America has filled the entire world with weapons, selling often to both sides of the fence, it is your federal government who should be ashamed by this, not the Mayor. The world is sick and tired of gun-toting Rambos terrorizing them, take your guns and shove them. Good for you Mr. Mayor, stick up for decency and peace, and don't be intimidated by your trigger happy military.

I live in a neighboring city and -- trust me -- downtown Toledo is a wasteland.

I doubt if anyone would even notice a few hundred Marines conducting exercises.

I mean, the place isn't being used for anything now. Certainly not commerce or business. So why not put it to some use?

The bright side, at least our Democratic politicians have succeeded in protecting us from exploitation by big auto, big oil -- big anything. Ain't nothing going at all around here -- big or small. The fruits of 50 years of Democratic Party rule.

Solidarity forever!

I will now add Toledo to the list of places where I will be spending money and time .

It takes a very courageous mayor to say no to one of the most criminal administration in our recent nation's history.

I can not believe that folks have already forgotten the Waco Texas and Kent State massacres. As well as the raid on little Elian Gonzalez' Home in Miami Florida.

The marines should be able to get all the "urban warfare" training they "need" in Baghdad Iraq.

For Shame

Just go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carty_Finkbeiner and read under Controversy.

I would like to congratulate the mayor for standing up to the military. Training in urban areas is just a way to indoctrinate the populous. It gets everybody used to seeing the military. That way when they come to take away our guns and subdue us we won't be as inclined to fight back. The military should not be doing any exercises in populated areas.

Perhaps the OH National Guard should be unwelcome if Toledo faces some disaster? This his just the hand wringing of another 1960's relic. Absurd.

I call on my representatives to pass laws eliminating
Federal funds of any kind going to the ingrates in Toledo. For sure I have them on a list of never go to or spend in.

Just go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carty_Finkbeiner and read under Controversy.

At some point one has to ask the question. Are we at war? 50% or better of the population says no. The other 50% aren't affected by the conflict directly unless a family member(s) are involved. This administration has bent over backwards to convince the public that yes we are at war..but don't worry..we got your back, you just go to work pay your taxes and consume all you can. I've long ago told my boys this society isn't worth their lives. Not with half of us in denial and the other half with their heads in the sand. This mayor makes my point completely. If leaders like him are doing this to the Marines..where does it stop? Certainly not at my families feet..

I completely agree with Robert Hamilton, Simi Valley, Ca. Also, I give thanks to and agree with the applicable portions of the statements by J D, Hampton Roads, VA. We appreciate YOUR support!!
I do NOT enjoy war, but sometimes we must stand up for right over wrong and defend our nation. History has proven that a strong and ready nation is much less likely to be overrun or even substantially attacked than a weaker nation. Just review world history to see for yourself.

I have personally served, my daughter is serving and my son is in the process of joining the US Navy. For ANY City, State or Federal official to WITHDRAW authorization for any branch of the military to train - AFTER the authorization was properly requested and received demonstrates just how little they support our military. I have no doubt that the next time the US Military is called upon to respond to any threat that this Mayor will join the chorus of people complaining of an insufficient response, too slow, etc.
ALL FEDERAL MONIES should be WITHDRAWN from this city for the current fiscal year - just as this Mayor has withdrawn permission for the military to train.

I used to live in Toledo and had they had the marines patrolling the streets back then I might have stayed. Toledo is known as the arm pit of the nation not just Ohio, and having family there is just so comforting.

Dear Toledo Residents:
It is with a sad heart that I let you know that I am suspending all business I do in the Toledo area until I hear that your Mayor has issued a formal apology to the United States Marine Corps.
I cannot agree more with your police chief when he says that if just one young Marine is saved from this kind of training, it is worth the inconvenience.
I cannot, with a clean conscience, give my business to a city that lets a lowlife such as this stay in office.

I find it hilarious that so many people on this board are claiming this as some example of the government trying to "intimidate civilians" by having marines train in Toledo. One supposed "former marine" even claimed that he was made to swear to kill American citizens. And to whomever left that charming rant about contractors and how our soldiers are exposed to "DU" every day, please, try to calm down. First of all, to the "former Marine," you know as well as I do that the nationality of a person isn't relevant. Marines just want to kill people, regardless of race, color, or creed. And that's why we love them so much. And as for the Michael Moore fan, first of all, those contractors deserve what they make. They're trained to insane levels of skill and operate without the support structure the military enjoys. If they get in trouble, they can't call the cavalry to rescue them. They deserve the money. We in the military work with them and respect them; most of them are ex-military anyway. And as far as depleted uranium is concerned, please pull your head out of the sand. You've been reading too many Arab propaganda websites. DU is not causing birth defects in Iraq. Though I'm pretty sure the gas that Saddam used on the north did. DU is not infecting our soldiers with radiation. The radiation it might produce isn't any great danger anyway. Stop believing the hype.

Let the Marines train. It's a good exercise, and probably a lot of fun for them. And practicing at an urban warfare course in stripped-out concrete buildings is nothing like going through a real office or apartment. Dealing with furniture, clutter, locks, power, and all the other things found in lived-in structures is important for them to learn. So let them train. I didn't think they're doing it to intimidate anyone, as fun as it is to get excited about martial law and think we're in a George Orwell novel or something. Makes you feel real special, doesn't it? Well, I think that if the Marines really wanted to intimidate you, they could, and you wouldn't have to wonder about whether that was their intention or not.

That is all.

I sfully support the mayor who saw thru the indimidation tactics of this administration, why would you want to scare people with your military excercises in the downtown area.

How long do the people need to be in this artificially created atmosphere of some sort of imminent or under-going attack.Hats off to you mayor, we need to more like you get back America to its rela values of freedom and justice.

Another coward politician....he sends a staffer to tell the marines that they can not train. One day, when there is a flood or tornado or ice storm, I hope those responsible for deploying the U.S. military have a long memory.

What a sad day for Ohio! Who is this mini tyrant that he thinks he has the right to disrespect the military like this? Three guess about who will be called if Toledo floods, it won't be the Mayor! I know who I won't vote for ever again!! What is Toledo trying to become, the eastern version of Bezerkley?

I used to live and work for the City of Toledo years ago and it is the most miserable city I have ever experienced. Toledo is the armpit of Ohio and it is nasty. No business, no jobs, no education. I would think this city would welcome some type of action in a dead downtown area. I am so glad I left years ago and will NEVER visit again!

This one really tees me off, it's not enough that our Mayor is a loose cannon on an almost daily basis, now he pulls this one. As a Vietnam vet.and the grandfather of someone on active duty these political hacks are really starting to make me fear for the republic. Unfortunately I think that in this election year we're only going to see more of this kind insanity.

These drills are preparing the police state in America. They desensitize people to the drills, trainings, bombings so that people would accept them--just like torture. These drills also scare people into submission and for mind control. Every time the media talks about terrorism, the blowing up in the drills remind people of that. Then because of the fearmongering, the scared people would submit their liberty for safety. If you give up liberty, you have NEITHER LIBERTY OR SAFETY!!! Very few mayors understand that--good job mayor!!!

Wake up folks and smell the tyranny...we have been so desensitized and brainwashed into accepting martial law, nosy airport searches, 24-hour cameras on the streets and microchip implants in our pets and bodies that we don't even realize that we are NO longer free people. As Ben Franklin once aptly put it: Those who desire security over liberty deserve neither....

For 232 years, United States Marines have been fighting and dying to insure that people like Mayor Carty Finkbeiner live in a free country. So, while he kicks them out of Toledo, the Marines just shrug and move one .... prepared to fight and die again, and to guarantee his freedom again. And again. Semper fi, Marines! Shame on you, Carty Finkbeiner.

"I've watched far too many of our civil liberties erode in the panic that has been fed since 9/11. We're no safer folks, but we are closer to martial law."

More panic. Hypocrisy.

The mixing of civilian and military spaces in America is alarming. It blurs the borders between democracy and the police state.

Or maybe that's the point behind these exercises? I say good for the mayor. I wish more public servants would stand up to the encroaching police state.

Congrats to a mayor of character and the citizens who elected him.
Why should he let Toledo look like Columbia or Myanmar?
If that's the best you can wish for your country I'd suggest you take a long vacation in one of those countries so well served by their military. Come back and tell us if that would make America better.
By the way, John McCain is 1000 times the man a Rush Limbaugh or George Bush could ever dream of being.
If you want to do your country some good, study the Constitution, read Eisenhauer's farewell speech on the military industrial complex, and work for common American interests instead of just showing us your frustration.

Another sad story about a city mayor with a shortsighted view of reality and misplaced sense of priorities. However,
--The Marine unit should have put up signs around the area indicating that Marine Urban Combat training was taking place. It should have been announced in the media beforehand. City police should have been detailed to handle the public information and on the scene population control. The police should have worked more closely with the Marines and probably would have picked up some useful training themselves.
--Marine training is more inportant than a city mayor's political self-interests. If he would expect to be criticised, or lose votes, then maybe he should look for another job.
--The city mayor demonstrated a rather glaring lack of responsibility in not backing up his police chief over a matter of national security training. He is headed in the wrong direction. Much could have been learned. So sad.

To the Honorable Senators of NE

Dear Senators Hagel and Nelson:

I am sure you are aware that the mayor of Toledo has perevented our marines for completing a training exercize in Toledo, OH. His decison will place more of our sons and daughters in uniform in harms way.

As a tax payer I respectfully request that you draft legislation that will perevent our tax dollars from being used to fund any and all projects connected with the City of Toledo.

Sincerely,

Dave Zickefoose

I urge ALL AMERICANS to boycott TRAVEL, PURCHASING, VISITS, ANY AND ALL COMMERCE within city limits of ANY CITY in the U. S. or any of it's territories that does not allow or support our U. S. servicemen whether it be practice training, recruiting or anything connected to our servicemen. As soon as the citizenery understands this, I'm quit sure the powers governing these cities would be run out on a rail !!!

When I lived in Ohio and Toledo many years ago, it seemed Carty Finkbeiner was a wuss. Still seems that way.

The police chief is correct. Training is important for military units. One suspects that, were a terrorist cell to attack Toledo, the mayor would suddenly wish for those Marines. And they would come to the aid of Toledo despite the lack of support they received. That's the military way.

Brooks A. Mick, M.D.
Colonel, US Army, Retired

To Mayor Finkbeiner,

What kind of a message does it send terrorists, when the mayor of a major US city refuses to allow our troops access & training, basically saying, you're not welcome here?

If we don't want & welcome our troops in our own back yard, what right do we have to send them elsewhere to represent & protect US interests? Or to ask for them in a time of local or national emergencies?

What if now Toledo looks like a very appetizing target for illegals & terrorists for hiding out & training given the mayor's disinterest in the US Military!

I can't imagine how many businesses & corporations are taking a hard look at their operations or potential operations in & around Toledo & reconsidering their options, or how many potential conventions and sports events committees are reassessing their choices and considering alternative cities where our military is appreciated & supported!

What about state & federal funding, will Toledo lose funding and special interests now that you've shown that the federal government can't count on Toledo for such things as a simple 3 day weekend of training for military? Look at Berkeley - Why should Toledo then qualify for funding and support from federal and state resources? Apparently you feel you can manage all on your own!

Local Economy? What kind of business, especially to local businesses, would 200 marines have brought to your community for three days? Local Taxes while they ate, shopped & fueled while "visiting' your city?

How about a positive influence? Marines look a lot cooler in their uniforms then gangs hanging out on street corners & stoops with a bottle in one hand & smokes in the other, and the military exercise, a chance to see the discipline & interaction between 200 troops, showing respect and team work, what better example for young people today?

How about just plain old fashioned patriotism? You remember what that is Mayor? That feeling you get when you see the colors going by during a parade, the sound of the National Anthem raising a roaring cheer at a sports event, the sight of a mother's tears as she's presented with her son's flag during a military funeral? How beautiful our Flag looks flapping in the breeze over City Hall perhaps? Does any of that ring a bell?

Whose going to repay the $10,000 it cost the marines for the training you canceled, that they had permission to do and no reason to suspect any differently based on previous years of said training? Will you out of your own pockets Mayor Finkbeiner, or how about the City of Toledo?

These are all questions the citizenry of Toledo deserve to have asked & answered, and I'm sure there are municipalities across the country waiting with bated breath to see what the fallout on this matter will be!

This mayor's incompetence is astounding. This is a rather major communication breakdown. He just finds out this training is going to take place as the Marines arrive in his city?? This incident resulted in a major inconvenience for the Marines. I wonder how welcoming of the Marines he would be if there was an actual threat to the city? Toledo should fire him.

I'm embarrassed to say I grew up near a city that would have a mayor who bars our courageous Marines from drilling there. We should all be opening our arms and hearts to these brave Marines who willingly sacrifice so much to preserve our freedoms.

God bless them and all of our military fighting so mightily for us.

United States Marine Corp has been actively defending our nation since 1775. This Bozo mayor forgets who provides his Hot Bean Soup every day. He only eats it then turns his back on those who have preserved his freedoms. Repent to the Lord God almighty and then apologise to the Marines who are training for future conflicts that will require their skills and training.

Maybe they can do their exercises in Crawford, Texas, where people support the troops.

It is obvious that the mayor is unAmerican, not patriotic and anti our brave military. He ought to be removed from office.

We the people DO NOT WANT THE MILITARY IN CIVILIAN AREAS... GET OUT.... AND STAY OUT.... go do your duty and PROTECT ME.... every soldier that dies in action did his duty.. My hats off to the dead foolish soldiers.....

The natives would shoot back, and you could use live ammo too.

This man Carty is a traitor, much like those bone-heads in Berkeley are-oh that's right, soldiers shed blood so traitors like Carty and the Berkely crowd, can burn flags, spit on our heroes, and kick them out of our cities.

Hopefully this butt-head's time in office is short. C

Carty Finkbeiner? Sounds like a fictional character from a badly written cartoon that didn't make it big. I don't think the town of Springfield on the simpson's would've voted for someone like Finkbeiner. Maybe the Marines should solicit towns across america and see where they are WANTED. I'm sure lots of towns would love to host them and let them train there. They would bring a welcome economic boost anywhere they went! Please come to MY TOWN MARINES!!! YOU ARE ALWAYS WELCOME!!!

leave it to idiot finkbeiner,to always blame it on someone else like he always does.i bet he never served one day in the military for his country.our families served proudly,my grandson is in the(U.S.ARMY)rigth now protecting carty's sorry butt.all he can do is keep his dog in a hot car in the summer,and pick ON old people,women,spend tax payers money stupid,like on bike trails instead of on the roads.(WAKE UP TOLEDOANS.GET HIM OUT OF OFFICE) THE idiot knew the marines were coming a year ago.P.S. TOLEDO IS A TARGET AREA FOR TERRORISTS.
FOR GOD & COUNTRY
RICH,SWANTON,OH.

I wonder what kind of "news" would have printed if some old person had a heart-attack during this "exercise". I have to wonder at the quality of Marine training if they depend on what they learn "fighting" in the alleys of Toledo, OH. You would think that they would have found the broken down neighborhoods of our neighbor to the north, Detroit, MI, as more realistic. Apparently, the marines can't get permission to conduct training either there or in Ann Arbor, MI or an area closer to home. Instead, they need to go on a "road trip" to find a place to conduct an exercise.

For all the posts I have read that Blast this mayor and scream that he must be a Democrat, or that he hates the troops I say this......

You people do not understand what is going on.

The military has no reason to practice in with the people of a city. They do this because they ARE CONDITIONING YOU for Martial Law.......

The military is already asking the soldiers if they would shoot family members or friends. They have only started increasing the "mock" urban warfare since Shrub took office.

The military is doing this so that YOU do not resist them when they begin to do this when Martial Law is enacted........

You SHEEPLE are really cowards who are using this as a way to feel safer..... YOU are no safer by allowing this then not allowing it. YOU are actually LESS safer because YOU are giving the military a way to settle into your little mind that this is normal.

There is a reason that the military does not mingle their training with the people...... It's called the Military, not POLICE!!!!

The military has a different purpose, and it is NOT for mostly the militaries training. It's to make the civilian population less concerned when they are walking up and down the streets and entering peoples houses in the not so distant future.

This is called a POLICE STATE when that is done.

Having served in the military, and reading several posts above from ex-military, I am concerned of how much this Administration has BRAINWASHED them and their actual understanding of what the military is for. It's sad when ex-military people are supporting the notion that troops should be walking up and down the streets performing exercises.......

The military has plenty of places to practice, and they do not need to do it in a city that has civilians in it. Don't give me this "they need to train in a "real" enviroment" crap either..... They can have training in a mock city and use two teams to make the training realistic and more true to life. They don't need, nor should they be, practicing in a city around civilians.

Next you'll be telling me that they should be allowed to fire their missiles and tanks at buildings because this is real life training.....

By the way...... If your concerned about them "defending" against "Domestic Enemies", then I suggest that you contact all the states and ask them when they will send their guard troops to do their job against the biggest "enemy" to the Constitution citing at 1600 Pensylvania Ave. Washington DC???? This administration has done more harm to our Constitution and shredded it so much that it is hardly recognizable. Those that say "BS", then please show me where in the Constitution it allows for "signing statements". There are only TWO options for a bill. 1) sign it and make it law. 2) Veto it and send it back.

The President cannot pick and choose what part of a bill he will enforce and what part he will not..... That is called a DICTATOR, not a President.

This is the small part of what this administration has done to destroy the Constitution, but you scream and hollar about a mayor and do NOTHING about the destruction of the Constitution. This is why I say those ex-military people are BRAINWASHED. The oath is to the Constitution, not a party or person. Start upholding your OATH or you too will be considered an "enemy" when there is a revolution when Martial Law is enacted.

Just this past November Carty is allowed to bring his dog Scout to work. Is anyone else allowed to bring their animal to Government Center???? NOOOOOO.

Carty then kicks out the Marines and still brings his dog Scout to work everyday when no else can't. And don't forget the time he left SCout in a vehicle in a handicapped spot on a hot day. Carty you must think Scout will protect you and Toledo.

There is nothing wrong with the Marines doing what they need to do Carty, GROW UP and GET OUT OF THE OFFICE!!! And take your dog too! I am very saddened to hear what you have done.

Time for this mayor to go. Why would the people of Toledo put someone like this in power?

Mr. Mayor, you might not have heard of, "We train as we will fight and fight as we trained." It's a hard-learned lesson that The Corps bases all their training on. MOUT installations on a base only hint at the nooks and crannies that make urban warfare so especially ugly.

Could you look in the eyes of a fallen Marine's parents and still think you could justify limiting the realism of ANY military unit's training?

Some idiot above said "I've watched far too many of our civil liberties erode in the panic that has been fed since 9/11. We're no safer folks, but we are closer to martial law."

Yes, we know. Bush is Hitler.

I would like one of these nincompoops to document all of these civil liberties we've lost. Please, concrete examples. You can't because there aren't any.

And we're no safer? Excuse me? We haven't had an attack on American soil since 9/11.

This guy whines about civil liberties out of one side of his mouth, then probably argues that leaving Saddam in power was the right thing to do. You know, cause Saddam was such a pillar in the annals of human civil liberties.

Would the Marines have scared both civilians that are in Downtown Toledo for the weekend? You can shoot a cannon off down there and never hit anyone.

I wonder how the people that own restaurants down there feel about losing a bunch of potential business. The mayor must be trying to make Kwame Kilpatrick look good by comparison. What a loser.

I am a Retired Navy Senior Chief Hospital Corpsman and half of my 25 years was spent with the Marines, I know for a fact that Urban Warfare is one of the most dangerous forms of Combat, and any Training in That situation is Vital, and at times is not available on the larger Bases, especially for Reserve Units who have to be innovative in their training, and to Deny them this because of some Political B.S. is foolish, the Mayor is dead wrong on this.

V/R Larry R. Rush, HMCS/USN,Ret.

I live close enougt to Toledo( Port Clinton} to make a desesion on where to shop and it won't be Toledo .I live between Cleveland and Toledo, so I rather then see the Mud Hens play I will go to see the Indians play rather then go to Tony Packos for a dog I'll go to Sundusky to eat .
Who needs to go to a town that throws the Marines out .I assume the only reson they choice Toledo as it closely resembles Bagdad in the down area
Toledens when is enough enought, get a petion up and throw him out of office. He wouldn't be the first Toledo Mayor forced out of office

I grew up on Army bases, and many thousands of children grew up on similar military installations. If we could deal with soldiers "practicing war" around us when we were just kids, why are the adults in Toledo so afraid?

His new campaign slogan...

I mean come on, “The mayor asked them to leave because they frighten people" An entire invading army could parachute into Promanade park, and as long as it was after 5p on a Friday, nobody would notice!

Every military base has their own housing and small business districts that could be used for training when they want to train for urban warfare in America.

The Pentagon purpose in Toledo isn't for training Marines - IT'S FOR TRAINING YOU - to get you used to the idea of having military units operate in your streets and cities, a violation of the Posse Comitatus Act but necessary to effect control over the population when Martial Law is declared.

Have you given any thought to why the Pentagon shipped military equipment to your local police departments?

Why does the Pentagon provide questionaires to soldiers asking if they would shoot Americans who refused confiscation of their firearms?

Don't you wonder why police now wear combat boots and military gear and set up "checkpoints" across major highways?

Don't you question why huge numbers of heavily armed military-style SWAT teams are sent out to arrest drunk drivers, tax evaders, or shoplifters?

There is something going on here that you don't understand, and some of you will never understand until it is too late to do anything about it.

You want to believe supporting military training in our cities is patriotism but it's not patriotism, it's not America, and it has nothing to do with showing respect for our men in uniform. Read the Posse Comitatus Act sometime if you doubt any of this.

As a DS vet, an Aeromedivac, having volunteered to participate in numerous realistic exercises with all branches of the military, including my favorite exercise of all time: Navy Seals, let me tell you that this is much to do about nothing.

Military exercises can be done elsewhere.

Whether the Mayor is 'kookie' or 'commie' doesn't even matter to me. For all I know, his reasons are sound.

Look, the United States military has plenty of options. There is no dire need to practice war in American cities.

This does not sound like Berkeley to me, and I too was shocked by that story.

There are massive amounts of other places where this training can be done realistically, and it is the commanders job to find them. Lets not get hysterical. Its nothing.

If I was a Firefighter, a Policeman or a Soldier, I would never respond to any incidence of violence, or destruction of any kind in the mayor's home or office. This guy should be recalled. Two guesses if he's a lib, and the first one don't count!

To me the real question is why didn't these Marines train in their home state of Michigan? They had to spend 2 hours traveling time,and with the cost of gas, etc. this was $ wasted. There are plenty of places in Michigan they could have trained. Or didn't Michigan want them either? I think Toledo's mayor made the right decision. This should be done where there aren't civilians around in a downtown district. I believe they would have been frightened with the presence of machinery, weaponry, etc. Give this mayor a break! PS: Maybe next time they ought to travel to Florida where it's warm! After all, that's only another thousand or so miles away, and the military has lots of our tax dollars to spend for gas...

Certainly the citizens of Toledo will remember this blatant act of unpatriotic behavior and not vote for this man should he run again for anything.

On the heels of the Berkeley incident, I would have to remind the Mayor of who responds first during any extreme occurence or incident: it's the military. I agree with the comment that it's in Toledo's best interest if the Marines do hold a weekend training segment there, if for no other reason than to acclimate them to your community and its resources.

While the citizens of Toledo are good people, they have an idiot for a Mayor. Even Corporal Klinger would be ashamed of this guy.

Because we are prepping for martial law. You will obey or be sent to a "camp". Forget about your "piece of paper"- constitution. It will happen under the next administration, nomatter how you vote. ALL of the "candidates" are part of this. CFR for life. Obey.

The mayor doesn't have good sense. These are the last people he should kick out of town. One never knows when the US Marines will be needed. Every American town should welcome these heroes with open arms.

Thank God for the U.S.A. and the USMC. I pray that our dead from Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Iwo Jima, Saipan, Inchon,Vietnam, Lebanon, Iraq will forgive these "Americans". I think they will because they are
BY GOD UNITED STATES MARINES. LONG LIVE USA AND USMC.

As a UT alum, I am sickened and embarrassed by the mayor's actions. Does the mayor really think that we believe the citizens of Toledo would be scared by the marines? If the Mayor (and I use that term loosely) is against the war, then he should be man enough to come out and say that. But don't insult the intelligence of the citizens of Toledo and deny training to the very people that provide our safety and freedom. Try putting yourself in our soldiers boots, Carty(without training, I might add), and I think you'll find that they are not "playing".

It saddens me to see a city official reject the very people that give him the freedom to do what he does--get elected in a democratic society. This freedom was won by the blood and lives of former soldiers, marines, airman, and sailors that came before. To repeat a phrase heard previously, "How could the greatest generation have created the stupidest generation?" This country, because of people like your Toledo mayor, is CTD. (Refer to George Carlin for definition)

As a Toledo resident, it is disappointing, yet hardly surprising that local leaders and politicians never cease in their quest to destroy Toledo's image and reputation. There is nothing I'd love more than to see Toledo return to even a fraction of the way it was when my grandfather was alive.

The military training has been done numerous times before and never have I heard of frightened residents. Downtown is so dead that hardly anyone is around downtown on the weekends.

Way to go Carty. You've done a great job of raising the awareness of Toledo so many times. Maybe next time you could break with precedent and make it about something positive.

Any city that pulls this should be in immediate danger of losing any federal funding. These are little rebellions against our federal government the military we the People want and support.If they don't comply then send the troops back in force. Really tired of defending the right of people to stay so stupid

Toledo Ohio, Berkeley California. What do they have in common? Air America, Ed Schultz, and a couple of other lunatic left wing fringe groups with tiny audiences of total lunatics that say they support the soldiers then encourage their elected officials to pull this kind of crap.

The National Guard would be the first ones he would call on in case of a city disaster, such as a terrorist attack. Yes, he has the right to keep the military from training there, but who gives and keeps his freedom to be able to make that decision?

Hope he nor any members of his family ever need the help of any of our military. Shame on him.

I grew up in Michigan and have been through Toledo many of times. I now happen to be living abroad in Singapore. One of the most eye-opening experiences of living in a foreign country is the media coverage about the US. Every day the paper headlines about the US recession, the entertainment section starts with "Britney...", or people here think that the president will be elected by the end of next week. But the worst part about the media coverage here is this type of dispicable behavior is exactly what gets reported outside of the US. The Mayor of Toledo is an embarrassment to all Americans. Whether one supports the war or not is not the issue- it is about supporting the men and women who have chosen to stand up for our country and risk their lives to protect our freedom. Every American needs to do everything in their power to ensure the safety of our troops, whether you are for or against the war.

Next time there is a natural disaster or unrest, I hope the Mayor's of both Berkley and Toledo can handle it without the help of the Nation Guard.
HELL NO WE WON"T GO

The sad part of Mayor Carty Finkbeiner's action is that when he needs the Marines to help his city, the Mayor and those like him will be the first to damn the Marines. Why will he damn the Marines because the Marines did not do the job to his standards. He will stand before the cameras to degrade the Marines for not training to save his sorry behind.

I agree with other comments. As an Ohioan, it is embarassing to think that a mayor of an Ohio city could kick the Marines out. when Toledo needs National Guard help in the future, they should be told to fend for themselves.

This idiot of a mayor should be impeached out of office.

I can't believe our nation is turning their backs on our servicemen and women. Shame, shame. Feels like Vietnam all over again. I will always support our military.

I hope this action taken by the mayor of Toledo does not reflect the feelings of his community.

God bless America. God bless our servicemen and women! Thank you for everything!

Shame on the mayor!

Has the Mayor ever been in our military? Imagine he is a Demorat/Dumborat politician. The next time he has to call out the National Guard, it would be nice if they told him to stick it, which they won't do however. Mister Mayor, hope the citizens of Toledo DO NOT RE-ELECT you at the next election. Are you a friend of John Kerry? LOL
Sincerely,
Cheif Plummer
USN-RET
Korea/'Nam Veteran

By the comments i read here it is obvious that americans are already accustomed to martial law.
americans actually want the military patrolling city streets.

with an unlimited budget and bases in every state and territory, the u.s. military doesn't need to be flexing its muscle on public streets. seriously, for what reason? do you actually believe that toledo is in danger of invasion? from whom? canada? pittsburg?

the police have no business fratenizing with the military. public policing is a service job not a military response to every speeding ticket, shoplifter or lost dog! on the other hand, i don't want the military directing traffic or using k-band lasers to catch granpa as he speeds along to his orthodontist!

— ralph smith, san francisco

Many of the good people of Toledo have been trying to remove this mayor for quite a while. He was our may in the 90s, then we forgot his arrogance and re-elected him; his two terms had expired, we had another mayor and then we put Carty back in office. Dumb. Please don’t condemn the entire city of Toledo because of the antics of one negligent Mayor; he does not represent the majority of the people. He led us to believe that he had an epiphany after a heart attack shortly after his first term in office, and was a changed person. He is changed; he is more irresponsible than ever.

Berkeley's attempt to drive out USMC Recruiters, surprised no one. Those people are totally out of touch with reality. Finkbeiner, whose name will not live in perpetuity, is just another wannabe, Outside the confines of Toledo, he is a total nonentity. What is he trying to prove? Is he another one of those fantasy-land demos who simply can't stand that we might attain our national security objectives? What do you really call a partisan political person who would sacrifice his country for political advantage? My mother grew up in Ohio. I am certain that people like Finkbeiner and Kucinich disturb her rest.

Finky runs a fiefdom. Acts as if he owns the town. He is also in sort of a local row w/ some african-american organizations currently in Toledo. Could this be a way to deflect some of that onto this?

Instead of expressing your opinion on this web site, let the mayor of Teledo know how you feel. His official email address is mayor.toledo@toledo.oh.gov. Emailing will have a bigger impact and he will know first hand how the people of this country feels about his decision.

Tell me Mr.Mayor, that these men do not need to train in the skills of warfare. Co-operation with the Marines for 3 to 4 days would not have made the slightest impact. Your own Police Department even backed this statement up. You are a complete disgrace!

Seems to me in a time of need, San Francisco, Berkley and Toledo should be last on the list of cities that the military to comes to the rescue of.

I hope the people of Toledo don't re-elect this poor excuse of a mayor...if you do you get what you deserve.

I also found it interesting that the article leaves out Mayor Finkbeiner’s political party affiliation. I am willing to bet he must be a democrat. Further proof that Democrats can not be trusted with National Security - or local security for that matter.

Besides, it seems to me the idea the people seeing the Marines drill would instill pride and confidence, not frighten them as the mayor suggested. Quote - “The mayor asked them to leave because they frighten people. He did not want them practicing and drilling in a highly visible area." This is simply more animosity towards the military from the left.

At least Jack Smith got it right, Quote “that if one young marine’s life is saved because of training he or she received in Toledo, Ohio, then it was worth the inconvenience.” I would like to add that if the Marines training allow them to protect one more citizen then it was also worth the inconvenience.

I for one am a citizen who is grateful for our Military and would like to thank them for their sacrifice and their service.

THIS is a mayor who tries to disarm the citizens, then blames the resulting rapes and murders on 'guns' so looks like the same approach - eliminate the military, then blame terrorism on right-wing talk radio or something equally illogical. Marines should never go there to help, and gun companies should not sell firearms to their police or the mayor's bodyguards.

Seems to me in a time of need, San Francisco, Berkley and Toledo should be last on the list of cities that the military to comes to the rescue of.

I hope the people of Toledo don't re-elect this poor excuse of a mayor...if you do you get what you deserve.

I also found it interesting that the article leaves out Mayor Finkbeiner’s political party affiliation. I am willing to bet he must be a democrat. Further proof that Democrats can not be trusted with National Security - or local security for that matter.

Besides, it seems to me the idea the people seeing the Marines drill would instill pride and confidence, not frighten them as the mayor suggested. Quote - “The mayor asked them to leave because they frighten people. He did not want them practicing and drilling in a highly visible area." This is simply more animosity towards the military from the left.

At least Jack Smith got it right, Quote “that if one young marine’s life is saved because of training he or she received in Toledo, Ohio, then it was worth the inconvenience.” I would like to add that if the Marines training allow them to protect one more citizen then it was also worth the inconvenience.

I for one am a citizen who is grateful for our Military and would like to thank them for their sacrifice and their service.

This training is designed to get US citizens used to seeing soldiers in our cities. It is psychological warfare. Most Americans will welcome tyranny when it is fully here. We are already living in a soft fascist society, and because we are not being told this (by our masters) on our nightly television uploading we have a hard time believing that it is true. God help this country!

Why is it an insult for the Mayor to excercise civilian control. There'a an awful lot of crybaby, whining posts by what appears to be an "entitlement culture" of trailertrash government employees. Toledo is governed by a civilian mayor who doesn't wish to authorized military operations on public and civilian property. Certainly no law or regulation has been violated.
On the other hand, a number of posts on this article imply or threaten action, mutiny and illegal violence in response to a lawful decision by a democratically elected mayor. Elections are legal and America is a free country where the Founding Fathers originally opposed a large standing national army and a "professional military class". Reading some of the obnoxious trailer trash "military" posts on this board in response to what amounts to a minor administrative question over training leads me to conclude the founding fathers were quite right.
The Marines should be disbanded as a threat to civilian freedom.

Your story failed to mention the Mayor's political party. Guesses anyone ?

The infantryman who says that they should train at the mock ups on active installations, I would ask how would the unit pay for this? If you are still either in the National Guard or the Reserves, you know that training money has been slashed to the bone to support the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Commanders have to be creative to get their troops the needed training with the funds available. If you've been to downtown Toledo recently, it's a ghost town on the weekends, especially during the winter because the Mudhens aren't playing. Heck, people might come to see the Marines train. This is pure politics and hubris on the mayor's part.

Remember that song John Denver wrote about Toledo? Guess he was "right on"! LOL

I applaud the mayor for his brave decision to deny the Marines and their war games.

Maybe now the citizens can go about their business without the worry of being stripped naked, made to form human pyramids, and then get beaten, raped and murdered.
That is what Marines do.

Why is it an insult for the Mayor to excercise civilian control. There'a an awful lot of crybaby, whining posts by what appears to be an "entitlement culture" of trailertrash government employees. Toledo is governed by a civilian mayor who doesn't wish to authorized military operations on public and civilian property. Certainly no law or regulation has been violated.

The Mayor of Toledo should be commited for this atrocity against my fellow Marines. Marines are the first to fight and continue to continue this tradition today. Training should be conducted in real time, not mock sets that cost taxpayers money. The mayor has shown a serious lack of Patriotism and has cost his city and it's merchants money. The Marine Commanders would have picked another site, had the mayor made his concerns properly known in advance.
I say BOOOOO! to the mayor and hope that the voting population remembers this when it comes time to vote!

Semper Fidelis

Michael Meadows
USMC Desert Storm Veteran

After reading about how the Marines weren't welcome in Toledo, I wondered how many illegal aliens are in Toledo and if the mayor is doing anything about that. How many crimes by illegals are tolerated by this mayor, yet the US Marines aren't welcome to practice urban warfare. Yes, it's a disturbance to normal life for a while, and it can even be dangerous, but it's a practice that can save American lives. Next time an illegal kills someone driving illegally, rapes someone, robs someone, ask the mayor what the problem was with the Marines again.

I commend the Mayor. This sort of training belongs on bases not in public. Have you ever been to the 3rd world? This is what they put up with, military on every street corner with machine guns , no thanks. While I support the military I see trouble on the horizon, perhaps these drills are not to subdue a foreign enemy but rather Americans themselves in their own homes.

How dare the Mayor not allow our soldiers to train. He is an absolute disgrace to this country. If he has chosen to deny our brave men and women access to training, we should deny Toledo access to federal funding.

I hope the day never comes that we actually need the help and support of the Marines in the Toledo area. For sure we will be put at the bottom of the list of cities in need of help for what ever disaster occurs.

Love the comment by the gentleman about the Democrats who dodged the Vietnam war. While these ner' do well democrats evaded the draft and protested the war, our glorious leader put in his time protecting the skys above texas (sort of, when he wasn't AWOL) and our glorious vice-leader, well... he had other things to do... but at least there was Karl Rove, oops... he wasn't there in Vietnam either. thank god for McCain, at least there was one republican over there...

I grew up near Toledo and this moronic behavior is typical Carty behavior. In fact twenty years ago the local radio station started refering to him as Carty Fink- Whiner. This is a man who spent millions of dollars to out in a Christmas Light display (Toledo Sparkles)when the city was in a budget crisis and he expected people to donate money to pay it off. He took so much flak for it that at a press conference he started crying (a Hillary moment). I believe he is a democrat as well. Unfortunately, until the blue collar, drunken bowling, I work for Jeep mentality changes the town will continue to elect Fink-Whiner and continue to drive off economic opportunity. Try finding a job in Toledo with a master's degree in engineering there is no opportunity. Heck, if Fink-Whiner would have let the Marines drill in Toledo they probably would have stayed for lunch and brought money into so downtown diner that could have used the business. Once again thanks to Carty Toledo "sparkles" on a national stage

If the Marines can't train in your city Mr Mayor then what can we expect should you ever become President? (Not that we have to worry about that!) Would the Marines and other services have to leave the Country? What a SNAFU!

The Marines need to train in a real environment not mock ups. This improves their skills and situational awareness and allows them to better defend us WHEN necessary. This Mayor would probably scream loudly if he asked for the Marines help and it was declined. Put politics aside and support the troops.

After living in Toledo, I have done, and will continue to move farther and farther away from the dump that is Toledo. We are awash with years and years of democratic stupidity.
The city has gotten nothing but bad press from Carty. He is a loud mouth cheerleader, that has no talent, and a "I am never wrong" attitude, who likes to bully his subdordiates.
Chalk this up to his list of stupid moves!

The mayor should be kicked out of office. He is obviously another Democrat military hater like the jerks in San Francisco.

After living in Toledo, I have done, and will continue to move farther and farther away from the dump that is Toledo. We are awash with years and years of democratic stupidity.
The city has gotten nothing but bad press from Carty. He is a loud mouth cheerleader, that has no talent, and a "I am never wrong" attitude, who likes to bully his subdordiates.
Chalk this up to his list of stupid moves!

Mayor: I have only one word for your actions - "contempt".

Semper Fi

The Marines should stay in Toledo and Mayor Fink
should go to Berkley .

Being from Ohio I can attest that Toledo is one of the most worthless places in the country.

What do you expect... Ohio stinks... The economy stinks... the football team stinks... The Mayor stinks!

Dear Mayor,

Sorry for imposing on your city, and for that matter, the rest of the nation, while we fight a war. I understand the rest of the country can't be bothered while they go about going to the movies, going to the store, spending time with their families, taking vacations, watching "Family Guy" reruns, and otherwise living a completely normal life while our military is at war on the country's behalf. Sorry your citizens might have gotten the impression that we might be at war.

Please also send our condolences to the whales off the Califonia coast who where damaged by our now banned sonar training. In hindsight, our ability to track silent Chinese submarines in the Straits of Taiwan isn't really that important to our nation's security. Our bad.

Sincerely,
The US Armed Forces

Isn't odd, that a very famous sword of war came to life in a place named Toledo. Actually it was in Toledo, Spain, in the 16th century as I recall, that the renowned "Toledo Blade" made it's first appearance. Needless to say, this tool of war was highly praised as one of, if not the very best and. effective killing sword(s) of the times.

Simillarly, our very own U.S. Marines, both men and women, are considered by many around the world as the very best, when it comes to fighting uprisings or wars of any type in defense of our nation.

One of the reasons they are so well regarded, is due to their careful recruitment requirements and, their training which never ceases.

Toledo Ohio, named after a renowned tool of war, apparently has as it's city's head, a man who perhaps should not be in that position. The reason being, is that he appears to be a follower and not a true leader.

If I were to guess, your mayor is most likely following the dictates of that small liberal town in California, known as Berkley(sic) who's leaders will not allow marine recruitment to take place within it's borders, as I understand it.

Thus Toledoeans, it comes down to this; if your leaders in city government hate their country so much, you most likely should provide them with a map to Toledo Spain. Point out that perhaps that Toledo, is much more apt to accept their skewed, unpatriotic, insulting opinions, and as such are not needed in YOUR Toledo of Ohio, where, with your blessings U.S. Marines can train as needed and, therefore this training could save lives like yours or loved ones someday as result of this.

God Bless America.

This is simply a case of the media attempting to cash in on the controversey in Berkeley, CA. There is a large difference between telling Marines they are "uninvited intruders" and attempting to shut down a recruiting station and telling them to find a more suitable area to train.

I am a career Soldier. While I think it is rude of the city to pull the rug out from under the Marines, it does not constitute the same level hatred as the lovely people of Berkeley.

I think the city should apologize to the Marines for the short notice cancellation of their training and the media should stop trying to capitalize on other news stories to increase ratings and sell papers.

The good people must remember his name because when he starts showing up at conferences and conventions around the country looking for money and handouts for Toledo, please call out his name 'Mayor Carty Finkbeiner' we don't want you in our city.

Why is it that the a neo-nazi group is allowed to march in the streets of toledo, yet the U.S. Marine Corp is banned. Come on toledo wake up and get with it. American Military is good, and neo nazi's are BAD, its pretty easy to figure out.

I always wonder about certain Lib types who are so anti-military. One would think that the "pressure" would be off, now that their precious butts can't be drafted any longer. I guess the Baby Boomers with that mind set are now in leadership roles all over the Nation. Kinda gives one the willies.... ya know what I mean? Anyway, a POX on the Mayor of Toledo, it used to be a pretty good town, once upon a time.

Grognard Gunny
USMC (Ret.)

Just remember if it wasn't for our marines & other members of the armed forces you won't have the freedom & free speech you have today.
Semper Fi

Unfortunately we have a mayor who continues to find ways to put his personal opinions into the public arena and stamp it with "Official Toledo Policy". To all the people who didn't want to put their names to the recall petition that circulated last year after equally audacious mayoral actions, I say "this is what you get !". What did we expect from a guy who ran on a slogan of "Carty gets things done" -- nothing in there that said they were going to be "good things" was there ?!

To borrow from a current popular ad campaign "Wake up People !!" -- we should return our city charter to the 'mayor-city manager' form of government we had previously and, at least, position ourselves so we do not have such a high probability of this in the future. This is yet another example of why so many people are ready to vote "no" on the city's special tax renewal, coming on the ballot in March.

If you feel so badly for the Marines. Why don't you let them practice in your town.

Grand Rapids has plenty of empty buildings, but its a Republican town. In a Republican district. Toledo is not .See the difference.

Toledo, the man in the ivory tower has made a bad decision. Toledo's loss is another cities gain. The Marines in this case are the real winners. I'm sure another city will step up and welcome 1/24 with open arms, much more accommodating training facilities and civil environment. I personally will be keeping my hard earned money tight in my fist while driving through Toledo to visit my parents in Michigan. Normally, I stop, fill up my tank get some snacks or a meal and carry on. I encourage others to do the same. Right after this letter I'm writing one to the Mayor of Toledo. Tim Greenleaf, Master Sergeant, USMC, Quantico VA

I don't mean to trivialize the situation, but: How does a guy named " CARTY FINKBEINER " get elected to ANYTHING.

Why am I not surprised? Carty was a Buffoon when I lived in Toledo..obviously his enormous ego and Napoleonic complex still get the best of him...so glad I don't live in Toledo anytmore. What is next?..Police and Fire can't drill and practice in Toledo anymore? Wake up Toledo elect a real Mayor next time

I am not suprised by this whole disgusting scenario. I used to live in Toledo before joining the Navy in 1983. I now live in Connecticut. Every time I come home to visit my parents I am appalled at what has happened to my hometown. It is a shell of what it used to be.

What else needs to happen before the people in Toledo stop electing socialists and communists like Finkbeiner, who parade themselves as democrats at election time. They say you get the government you deserve. Toledo is getting the government, the social problems, and they deserve. The whole town has went down the toilet and Carty (Local Leftist Hero)is the guy flushing it. Look around at what has happened to your town.

Clay Leslie

We'd love to have you. Bring your amphibious unit, but come on down. We're just a few hours southwest of your current position.

Could not believe that I was reading about an Ohio mayor's actions - thought it had to be San Francisco. SHAME ON YOU, mayor, and shame on those citizens who put you in office. I would like to personally invite the Marines to Oklahoma to train - we would welcome them with open arms and hearts. May God bless all those who serve to preserve and protect us.

You know, I'm leaving for Parris Island tonight, I'm going into Weapons Co. 1/24 (which is in Perrysburg). I was born in Toledo, grew up in Perrysburg, went to UT for a short while, and I am beyond offended by the mayor. Marines need to train to survive in combat and learn techniques to protect themselves. I guess what the mayor wants to convey is that he doesn't care about the lives and safety of Marines that will be entering combat.

This is an excellent example of why we should not elect a Democrat for President.

It is sad today that some leaders feel the need to bow to the liberal left and close areas to the very people that give them the freedom to do what they do. I keep notes on where people in power voice their hate and use their position of power to restrict others. I try to avoid spending my hard earned dollars where they might benifit.
People need to stand up and stick to what is right and just. If you really believe in what you believe, make a couple phone calls and let your voice be heard. It is a habit of the strong to just keep moving silently ahead, ajusting to changes with out voicing any opinion. Please stand up, be strong, and protect your way of life and the freedoms of you and others. Strong opinions combined with action on what is right and just have maintained our personal freedoms and kept America strong and growing since the begining.

Triston

Never been to Toledo... I'm quite sure that watching war games downtown wouldn't be on the "A list" of things to do. Watching my neighbors families/kids torn apart when we bury these fallen soldiers from the Iraq quagmire is gonna stop real soon... that is on the top of my list.

Oh and to the poster here talking about how Blackwater is getting frigg'n rich off this quagmire.... where is your outrage about this ? Well ? Why are mercenaries returning back home bragging about making $500 dollars a day... ? Where did the hundreds of millions of our tax dollars disappear to over in Iraq, and why is no one being held responsible ???? Well ? Play games and wave flags, meanwhile our country/industry is shipped overseas... and our boys get shipped back in a box... look your leaders in the eyes and ask are we really free ?

The Marines do this type of training twice a year in out town. When they do, hundreds line the streets in the areas of the training to watch them, cheer them on, and thank them for protecting us. Your mayor disgusts me.

Perhaps the Marines chose Toledo because the abandoned, hopeless landscape of downtown ( Fifth Third Field excepted ) is so similar to that of cities in which our troops are fighting to protect the freedom of those who disdain them. Let the whining and hand-wringing continue. Toledo has taken the place that was formerly occupied by Cleveland in the national joke lexicon.

i read the article with great interest. to me, it was just another democrat who doesn't want the military around. Typical of the Democrat national leadership. There are a great many Democrats who do not feel this way. They have served in the military, fought for this country and its citizens. I am one. yet when I see the National party Leadership today, I wonder where we are going. They bdon't repersent me, a working man, a vet anymore. They are way to far left.

This is just another example of a stupid idiotic politician who doesn't understand nor care that FREEDOM IS NOT FREE. His freedom to stop this exercise is protected...not by the Constitution, nor the laws of this land...but by the men and women serving in our Military and their sacrifices on the battlefield. If we had not fought all foreign wars...including current operations on other lands...we might be speaking German and or Japanese. I will never visit or support Toledo, Frisco, or Oakland in any way and will ask my congressman to stop federal funds to Toledo.

Thank You for your support Mayor Carty Finkbeiner

The mayor of Toledo needs to be fired period. Our men in uniform need the training and if Toledo won't let them practice in Toledo then all funding for that city should be cut off immediately. I think the citizens of our great country are just fed up with men like the mayor, his backside needs to be kicked out of office. Shame on him and the people of Toledo for allowing this man to shame our troops.

Wow, some pretty nasty (and very confusing) stuff here. There has been much that is created to further blind personal agendas. To begin with, the mayor has said nothing against the marines themselves. He has simply banned a training exercise in his city. While it is possible that this was a poor decision it was never communicated that it was out of spite, hatred, or disapproval, of the marines or any armed forces of the United State. So this presupposition of anti-American anti-military views (especially of course because he’s a Democrat who as we all know are anti-American terrorists!) is absolute nonsense.

Then people go on an on that Toledo better hope they never need the military in case of terrorist attacks. Why? Are you suggesting that Toledo be ignored if attacked? That, perhaps the good people of Toledo deserve no military help in time of war. Seems like a view only a terrorist would take. It amazes me to see the vitriol against the people of Toledo themselves. So, we have Americans wrapped tightly in the flag, writing in terms of absolute hate and contempt for other American who are simply living in another city. Ya, those folks in Berkeley, Toledo, San Francisco deserve to die in terrorist attacks. Now, who’s crazy?

Finally, many of you wonder about the kind of people who could elect such a complete idiot to run their city while at the same time we have the biggest moron in modern history running the country.

He is a jerk. This has nothing to do with inconveniencing anybody. The Marines asked permission, and it was granted. This training is necessary for modern day warfare...he obviously has an axe to grind. Just read the statements of the former chief and you can read the blatant distaste he has for the military. I completely agree with Chief Smith that any training that saves the lives of our young men and women needs to be done. If there were people getting hurt or businesses being forced to shut down for several days... then I understand the hesitancy. But this is a weekend training in an empty building. Ridiculous mister Mayor... ridiculous.

Let's see, the article didn't mention his poltical party. I wonder what party he belongs to. Hmmmmmm?

As a former US Marine, I see no difference between this action, and those of city councel in Berkley, CA.

You make a deal for training the Marines. (which I'm sure was not free to the Marines) The Marines spend money to prepare for this training, and you back out?

What was your reason? Public Fear? Give me a break.

Has anyone seen the article on this mayor who took a handicapped parking spot, so his dog would get shade?

What a putz.

Semper Fi

No need to check if the Mayor is a Democrat, I'd bet my paycheck on it. Constant criticism of our military and anyone who has the self-defense gene, and constant support of our enemies. That's been the Democratic way since the 1930's when they snuggled with Uncle Joe Stalin. I often work in Norfolk/Hampton Roads, VA and am proud to see SEALS practicing daily within eyesight of the interstate, proud to feel, then hear the jets streak by. These are the same whiners who wonder why armed fighters weren't on top on NYC within 2 minutes during 9/11. These people hare deeply self-loathing, so of course they hate anyone who's goal is survival of the nation.

I work with a high ranking congress person and he can't believe an American city would kick out troops conducting an approved exercise in vacant buildings.
Toledo needs to look at who they elect. This aborted
exercise costs the taxpayers thousands of dollars.
As well it is a slap in the face to our fine service personnel who only purpose is to defend and protect the citizens of Toledo.

Lived in Toledo for 5 years and it is the cesspool of Ohio. I also will not be visiting again anytime soon, sorry guys you'll just have to come to NY now ! for I refuse to spend my money in an un-American city. Also cancelled a trip to San Francisco/Berkely for this very reason. DON'T disrespect our Troops just because you don't agree with our Politicians. Scare the people WHAT people ? Toledo is dying it's no where near the city it use to be.

Toledo has Finkbeiner, Cleveland has Kucinich. Now you know why Ohio continues to sink. Wake up people it is time to start holding your elected officials accountable! As Trump would say, "Someone should be fired." Finkbeiner!

i was a marine and i agree with the mayor. the military has no business traing in residential areas. that is just asking for problems! you want realistic training? build a city triaing course. actually, we already have them. what's the point? to run around the civilian population to make it realistic? i know how i would feel if i just walked out of a grocery store and saw guys in cammies rushing towards me. shoot first...
like i said- asking for problems. keep it on the training grounds for everyone's saftey.

and to the guy who says this realistic training would allow them to bettwr protect citiznes? that isn't their job. they are not allowed to patrol the U.S. and act as a national police. their job is to kill and deter the enemies of the U.S. period.

For one thing, you right wing loonies, Carty is one of you. He couldn't get elected, running as a Republican, in this town. So he changed parties, in name only. As far as the Marines are concerned, Put Carty in the Brig!
Ex military(Navy)

Unfortunately, Toledo"s fink has done it again. You woudl think that more people from Toledo would have commented here, but they won't. We have a "strong mayor" type of government here. We also have a jerk of a mayor who thinks it's ok to bully people including his staff and city council. He makes sure to retailiate on those who oppose him. One person had a somewhat successful petition going for the Fink to be recalled. Unfortunately, time ran out and he didn't know he could get an extension of time, so the petitioner destroyed all the signatures to prevent any retailation by the Fink and his cronies. The majority of Toledoans want Carty gone from office, but don't want retailiation delt their way. Yes, He is an embarrassment to the city. I didn't vote for him this last time! The first time was bad enough with the reputation he gave us! He does not speak for the majority of Toledoans. He speaks only for himself!

Boy, am I glad I moved out of Toledo. I wouldn't want to be afraid of those little gun-toting marines putting there lives on the line to defend our country. I am sure glad Mayor Fink is watching out for us. Maybe he will be the next "Commander" to get the boot.

BRAVO for the mayor. I had almost lost hope for our public officials but apparently there is at least one who knows what these useless urban excersizes are REALLY about!!! There are plenty of us out here who have known for years.

Hopefully the people of Toledo will remember this action taken by the Mayor when the next election comes up. This is another indication that Liberalism is a mental disorder.

We have a war on three fronts-Afghanistan, Iraq, and the home grown assistants to the insurgents.

They can practice that crap somewhere else. It doesn't matter what carty does, you would be against him. Marines- go somewhere else!!!

I lived in Toledo for fifty years. I went to The University of Toledo at the same time Carty Finkbeiner did. He was an idiot in college and is an idiot now.
Shame on the voters for putting this idiot in office. I don't blame Carty....he does what is natural for an idiot. But, for a major US city to actually elect a mayor with obvious mental disabilities....shame on you.
This mayor fires city employees in wholesale numbers for their failures and perceived mistakes. Well, Carty, you claim you "didn't know". Well, you should have known. Take responsibility..... and fire yourself. If you really "love Toledo", as you claim....help Toledo out. Resign NOW!

Bill

[a] This government has trashed our constitution
[b]jobs have been outsourced affecting our economy
[c]our military is scattered all over the globe
[d]the soldiers coming back into our society have major disabilities, ie; loss of limbs, inability to function with very little government support. The ones who do come thru unscathed physically are tormented mentally.
[e]Stop romanticizing a group of society taught to kill and destroy with all this flag waving.
[f] Think this war machine can't be turned against US citizens, think again. These same soldiers hardened by this war will become police officers, bodyguards, ect. that have been trained to kill or eliminate.

I for one profusely admire the mayor of Toledo.

Many have said that mayor finky is a democrat, what does that matter? Do you think my husband and son asked the marines next to them if they were a democrat or a republican? I can tell you they did not! Our military men and women protect each other regardless of potical affiliation. So why do people want to make this political? We are talking about human beings, who cares about politics? finky as always been a butt and why the people of Toledo keep electing him is beyond me. I actually feel sorry for those people. At one time there was a gentleman who tried to take a stand and oust finky out of office, it was unfortunate for Toledo that he fell short of the signatures needed to do so. He needs to start his rally again, he'll probaly do it this time, since finky has made the city a laughing stock for all to see. The Government needs to step in and do something about this, wether it's cut off funding, which wouldn't be fair to the good people of Toledo, because of a very BAD decision made by an idiot. Governor Strickland of Ohio needs to do something as well, finky as put the state of Ohio in the media spot light and it's not for anything he did good.

Carty gave the Marines 3 hrs. to get out of town. Lets give Carty 3 hrs. to get out of town! I'll help him pack!
ex Military(Navy)

What the Marines were trying to practice was a form of warfare called MOUT- Military Operations on Urban Terrain. This type of warfare deals with combat in urban areas such as buildings, city streets, and houses. Much like the same enviroment you would find in Baghdad, Tikrit, or any other urban area in Iraq.

At Camp Lejeune, NC, there is an entire small town built for just this very same type of training. The problem the reservists have is that the vast majority of their units are located much to far away form such facilities to be able to do this type of training in a weekend.

Lets also not forget just how much the reserves and National Gaurd have seen action in Iraq. They desperately need this type of training. The reason why they wanted to train in Toledo is because they don't have to travel very far, and Toledo has a plethora of abandoned buildings because it's economy sucks.

I'll bet that if the Marines wanted to hold an event where Mr.Mayor could make some money he would welcome them with open arms. Mr. Mayor, why don't you just move to Berkley?

Chalk it up to another good democrat mayor slapping the the marines and or any other service group square in the face. What a guy! Remember people of Teledo you voted for this loser.

But what the h*ll were you thinking by re-electing this tool to office?

He's a liberal'Rat politician, would you expect anything differant from one when it comes to our military? He's your emabarrassment.

recall petition!

Toledo is a know-nothing hovel. Who cares if the Marines want to train there. I will never set foot in Toledo or the rest of the Hell that is Ohio ever again because of this intolerant mayor.

This mayor has been an embarrassment to Toledo for years. He was a lunatic during his first and second term, finally hit his term limit and is re-elected after a 4 year break.

The good people of Toledo need to stop voting for a name they know or a (D) behind a name on the ballot. Republicans in Toledo need to step up and represent their constituents and 'good' Democrats need to turn their back on this loon.

This mayor is a bully and a egomaniac. He has brought a struggling city nothing but humiliation ... oh, and lots of lost jobs...and higher taxes. Who wants to live in Toledo? Who wants to bring a business here? That would be nobody.

The lights are slowly being turned out in this once great city. This mayor, his policies and his behavior are ensuring that is what happens.

As a grandma, I'll stand by the Marines anyday. In fact, issue me a weapon and I'll fight side by side with them anytime anywhere as long as I can ... even without a weapon.

I've had it with the stupidity of the liberal anti-military crowd who have sand in their brains and prove it to the rest of us over and over.

They always want the Marines to take care of "All Problems" just as long as it doesn't cause them any inconvience. When Clinton was in office he cut the military to the quick. I resent the fact that my household budget went to buy firecrackers so my husband could train his reserve troops. They needed the training so if they were ever under fire they would know how battle sounded, felt and smelt. What the hey! they don't need to have any "real live training". They can learn by osmosis.

Toledo likes their citizens unarmed and now they don't like Marines? If I were plotting an attack what better place than a city of unarmed citizens who don't want military personnel in their city? If Toledo were to fall into Lake Eire it would re-pollute the lake. Shame on you citizens for electing such a doofus.

Since the Marines were stationed in Grand Rapids, MI, why not train in a city in Michigan? How about Detroit, which would benefit from a little urban warefare training? Would the Mayor of Detroit accept them? Inquiring minds want to know.

As someone you just retired after spending over 30 years in the Military defending one's rights to act stupid, I won;'t spend any money or time in cities where the Military are not wanted.....

I guess my son and son-in-law are no longer welcome in my own city, how sad!

Civilian facilities, abandoned or otherwise, are NOT the playground of the US Marines or any other military establishment! Our towns and cities should not be exploited for purposes of conducting armed forces exercises. The Mayor is completely and totally correct when he says the USMC should use some of it's bloated military budget and build a "fake" town in which to practice!

The people of Toledo should commend their Mayor for has the stones to recognize that in America our military is subject to civilian rule, not vice-versa!

Go play war in Iraq, not in our cities and towns!

Question. Why do these Marines have to go 4 hours by bus to Toledo to do this training? Is it because every Michigan city has refused?

So all of your wrath against Toledo should also be targeted to Michigan cities too.

I've never lived in Toledo and wouldn't ever visit there. However, I have started sending Email to Washington to voice my feelings on the matter. Much like I did concerning the situation in Berkley, Ca.

I hope the results are similar. Threaten to take away federal funding from some of the mayors legit projects and some of his pork as well.

Have a nice day.

We need to have those same Senators that were drafting up the proposal to deny Monterey CA federal funds for kicking the Marines out of there. The city council was very fast to apologize and allow them access once the bill to deny funds gathered steam.
Also... This guy has a re-election day, he can easily be replaced by a townspeople with backbone.

The Mayor of Toledo is a coward of the hightest order. Not only did he stop some vital training, but as soon as somebody called to ask why he stopped the Marines from training he immediately went into CYA mode. The man sounds like he wants to be a hero to the anti-war movement. Hopefully he will receive the appropriate recompense for his actions. The people of Toledo deserve a leader, instead what they got was a coward.

The story omitted Mr. Finkbeiner's party affiliation. It should read "Democratic mayor Carty Finkbeiner"

Marines have been conducting this urban warfare training in cities around the country for many years now! Marines believe in first class training. That means less losses for them and the civilians too! You -citizens- demanded that all of our military units have Homeland Security Training in realistic 'realworld' scenarios. OH BUT NOT IN MY BACKYARD. Wake up people you want to live day to day life without a worry in the world, but you want to be selfish and whine about a few moments of your life getting inconvenienced! I have been busting my tail in Iraq peforming the very mission from training you are whining about. The Mayor is a dope and I am glad I did not vote for him. I'll put my 20 years plus experience up against him anyday.

Is Finkbeiner related to Dennis Kucinich?
Sounds about like the same level os aptitude.

As a native of Toledo, I am disgusted and ashamed that they would elect such a left wing socialist piece of garbage like Finkbeaner as mayor. Apparently the police chief Mr. Smith has it right.
I received a great education in Toledo Public Schools and state universities in Ohio and went on to the Ivy League from there. Current residents need to stop voting for Democrats and start putting Toledo back to a place of prominence in the region. Stress self-reliance and not big govt. dependence and juvenile, immature anti-war nonense.

Carty Finkbeiner?

Could you, the voters of Toledo, not have anticipated this sort of thing when you elected a Mayor named after a comic strip character?

The Mayor is a joke; he said the Marines presence would upset people leaving their offices at 4:30, but did he miss the part about the training held on the weekend? Training and safety of our troops should be a high priority, outweighing a slight inconvenience to the Americans the Marines are training to protect Semper Fi

...there are no more noble people on earth than a u.s. marine. For you to kick them out speaks volumes

I used to a active duty Marine stationed at a Reserve Center (Milwaukee, WI) and we often had the reservists travel to other city's / locations for training (called drill weekends). Why, because they need different sites, conditions, mental mindsets, etc that those locations /distances can offer. By the mayor not allowing this really did the Marines,the country, the local residents, and business's a dis-service. No wonder Toldeo is going down the tubes (I know this cause I was born in Toledo and have family there still). Mr. mayor, if your city every needed the help of the Marines and you were still in office, I would expect they would come and do a super job of what ever was asked. But something tells me that while they were doing what ever needed to be done to help and protect the local residents, it may take them a littl longer than you would like to come help you personally.... Mr major- Don't mess with these fine men and women, they are truley elite, do some unthinkable things and don't do it for money or power, but rather for the love of thier country.

Suffice to say where I stand on supporting the Marines (being a former marine who was truley blessed by being allowed to be part of that elite organization back during the first Gulf conflict), I will support and honor them as a civilain for the rest of my life.

Semper Fi,

Steve - Atlanta

police state police state police state police state
police state police state police state polices state
Wakeup you dummies, here it comes!

As a retired Navy Corpsman I recall going to various cities throughout the United States to practice urban warfare prior to deployments. This was taking place before 9/11 and needs to continue. To say it "disrupts" or "creates fear" in the civilian population is pure bunk. The training is extremely beneficial and for those of you that say use the farmland ("God knows we have plenty of it") it is obvious to me you have never participated in urban warfare training or more importantly true urban warfare. While the MOUT facilities are nice for initial practice, the benefit of training amoung actual civilians cannot be overstated. Yes, the 1/24 commander and the Marine Corps were using their heads when they arranged this training. The root problem here is with the Liberal Left and its desire to destroy our great country from the inside out not the training initiatives of our military services. Like the war or hate it, the bottom line is you will be speaking another language or forcibley worshiping another religion if our military personnel are not allowed to train to fight for our country and defend your right to say/do stupid things. What those of you that oppose the military training and the war don't realize or are afraid to admit is that this is an ideological war that will come to our shores if we don't fight it overseas. Take a llok back at history and consider this, everyone talks about the bad Christians during the Crusades but the fact is the Crusades were actually intermitent responses to the violent spread of Islam (the same extremist approach that is rampant again in the Middle East, Africa, and Asia, not to mention Europe. Think of the Arch Bishop of Cantebury stating that a level of Sharia Law should be allowed and enacted in Britain. WAKE UP People and stop trying to appease the sensibilities of our enemies.

As a Former Army Captain, Combat Engineer Company Commander in Viet-Nam.
As the Chairman of The Panhandle for Kerry in 04, you need to go direct to the Toledo Bus Station, one of the few working business's downtown and catch the next bus north to the Artic circle. you are not an American!

SF, Berkeley, and now Toledo - all give our US Marines a bad time. It's absolutely shameful what these pinko, legwarmer-wearing girly-men liberals are doing. Based on the current Presidential election campaign, things will only get worse.

Remember the Clinton years - the incubation period when Bin Laden was allowed to train terrorists, kill and maim our US soldiers without retaliation?

It's going to be Groundhog Day all over again.

Illegals will be encouraged to vote early and often to skew the election in favor of the Marine-haters. The future is now - thanks Toledo.

First of all to Second Ammendment-Needed, Toledo... When IT hits the fan, the guy without a firearm will not be a man, he'll be a corpse. As a former Marine who served in Vietnam I can tell you that "PRACTICE" is the best way to keep from being a statistic. Cops train in "urban warfare" in the city in which they serve - when the time comes you will be the first one to surrender your family (daughters, wife, et.al.) to
whomever comes in with the dreaded gun. I guess a half a man is better than none at all.

this is just another reason i moved out of toledo two years ago.it,s a crying shame the city of toledo has such a coward for a mayor.if toledo were to be attacked the mayor and sorry excuse of a police department would never stand a chance.they cant even stop the crime in toledo what would they do if it were attacked.the people of toledo should take action and get rid of this idiot.stand up toledo and take back your city.and for carty you should run for president of IRAN they would love you there.you are one sorry man ( or should i say boy ).

The Mayor is WRONG and shames the proud people of Toledo. Get rid of him. The power of the vote is strong. What are the impeachment rules in Toledo?

It's a shame this mayor reflects the attitude of this community...or does he? The marines would be welcomed in this community...more exciting than all the violent movies out there...which seem to be welcomed in any community.

I cried.Shame on Toledo's mayor-Carty Finkbiner !I am embarrased to be his neighbor.

What a sad comment from a Mayor of a major city. He should be railroaded out of town asap. I thought all the ultra liberals lived on the left coast, but I guess there is one in Toledo. What a digrace to be treating our military this way, especially when they are performing a service for the citizens of that city.

I work in law enforcement in the Toledo area. Having the marines in downtown would have been like giving me a weekend off (even though I would have been on). Do you know the shiver that goes up the spine of criminals when the marines roll into town? Also, thanks for allowing all the $ that the marines would have brought to town leave. I'm sure the Toledo PD will remember that when contract talks come around.

I grew up in Toledo and surrounding area and I joined the military and left 25 yrs. ago. I have been back twice since (not by choice) Carty Finkbiner is a loon always has been. I remember when he was running for councilman. WACKO is the kindest description. Remember when he was mayor before and he suggested selling house near the airport to deaf people since they wouldn't complain about the noise. He is typical of the vast majority of the population in Ohio & Michigan. I have no sympanthy for their circumstances ans they are self inflicted. The smally minority of this country supports & appreciates the military, and it's getting smaller everyday!

As a former soldier and someone so far to the right I make Pat Buchanan look like a liberal, I congratulate the mayor on doing his job. He is the mayor of Toledo, and his first responsibility is not to the Marine Corps and not to Washington, DC; his primary responsibility is to the people of Toledo who elected him to look after their interests. Training accidents are one of the most common forms of death and injury in the military, and there is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for carrying out military training in populated areas, essentially involving civilians as part of the process without their consent. That is the most important reason to deny the Corps' request, to say nothing destroying the peace of the neighborhoods in question, tying up traffic, and, in many residents, causing a panic. If the military wants to train in urban areas, they need to choose an abandoned location (large sections of Detroit come to mind), get permission of the local elected authorities, and ask for civilian volunteers to come in to fulfill the needed rolls, not draft them into it.

Thank you Mayor, should an urban war ever come to the US, be it terrorists or the proliferating gangs, I hope they hit Toledo first, but as I have always suspected and now know, there is nothing there...common sense or otherwise...who are you to determine the securtiy of our country? Jim B

Give them hell mayor. I'm surprised that your state allows the marines use of i'ts cities for combat training. The situation reflects a complete lack of commen sense.

Active duty retired military.

Its hard to say if they are red or blue. Did anyone think why now they are forcing the military out. I should say the marines they are not picking on the navy or air force nor even the reservist why the marines. I'm 3rd generation military. I'm a proud American. Ask and read before we speak. Ask why they train in Toledo. Then why is Toledo not good enough they say they can use the jr. High school. Why were they not told when they were kicked out. Money have exchanged hands we always pay rented space books must be tidy. Will the marines be refunded. They had permission from proper channels they should be reimbursed for fuel and bus rental. Some think the military has all this money. We all live by budgets and all have their limits. Whom do you really think will pay for this mistake. Soldiers improperly trained, Toledo business lost of revenue and an anti American image, the tax payers to pick up your mayors mess for his political views. The mayor admitted he had a disagreement last year and claims he told them not to come back again. But says the jr. high school is okay. which is it? I wonder how Patterson Air force base feels. I wonder If their funding was cut and the base was closed how all of you would be affected. Wake up Toledo Read, watch the news. Look what the country is doing. You think your the only city. Who would like money for Improvements. (who was paid and how much? Return the money I want An audit Toledo cant say come then be kicked out and keep the money.) Would you want a neighborers or loved one to be unprepared.

I will neither accept freight loads of food that originate or deliver in Toledo. The mayor has insulted those who feed him, clothe him, and protect him while he sleeps.

I am sure there is fed money that can be withheld
from this fine city. It worked well in berkley, only the threat was needed to fix the problem.

robroy
Batavia, Ohio

Share your thoughts with this creature.

mayor.toledo@toledo.oh.gov

It is plain to see that Mayor Fienkbiener hates the military and is unpatriotic. He would gladly see our young Marines sent off to fight the terrorists, completely untrained.

In fact it seems as though he would relish the slaughter of American troops at the hands of the terroristic Muslims! He obviously is an Al-queda sympathiser!

A Proud Retired United States Marine!
Sempre Fi, Do or die, Hold em high at 8th and Eye!

Dear Mayor,

You and your kind are so concerned that our men and women are dying in Iraq but you don't allow the kind of training that would help keep them alive.

I don't want my tax dollars going to a city that is not grateful to those who fought and died so your earmarks can be in American dollars instead of Rubles, DM, Euro, dinar, rial, franc, peso, etc. I think you get the idea. I certainly hope that your city is included in the DeMint bill before Congress to stop those earmarks.

I understand that Toledo is a pretty depressed city, let's see how well you survive without the help of those you condemn.

This isn't about the current war, this is about your military being fully prepared for any situation. Surely, notifying the residents of Toledo would have be sufficient enough so the citizens wouldn't be "afraid". I doubt many would object to their army being properly trained!

I've been to Toledo. You mean the Marines haven't trained within the city limits without live ammunition in the past? You could've fooled me.

Hillary Clinton almost single-handedly led the effort that kicked our Navy and Marines out of the amphibious live-fire training facility in Vieques, Puerto Rico. The Mayor & City Council want our Marine recruiters out of Berkeley, Calif. And now the Mayor of Toledo, Ohio has precipitously halted Marine reservists from conducting urban warfare training in his city. I knew a great Marine from Toledo, a long time resident and successful businessman there, the late Maj. General Walter Churchill,Sr, USMCR, the founder of the Marine Corps League Youth Physical Fitness Program. He would be turning over in his grave if he knew what is happening in his beloved city, and if alive, I'm sure, would be leading the charge to reverse this shameful action. The Marine Corps has a current force structure today of 186,000 Marines, plus 39,000 Marines in the Selected Marine Corps Reserve. It has 8,695 Marine reservists on active duty. Reservists are an essential component of the total force, as is evident in the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. Constant training and preparedness,including urban warfare, is critical to the nation's force-in-readiness, with both its active duty and reserve units. To deny the Marines this opportunity to train its reservists in a modern urban environment, similar to the training being conducted by our enemies, is short-sighted, shameful, and inexcusable. It is also laden with the potential for tragic consequences. in the form of increased casualties that could have been avoided.

--A former Marine veteran of the Korean War, and proud father of an active duty Marine

Jim Merna
Annapolis, MD

Mayor Carty,

Your own police force does not believe Toledo would be frightened, and published the imminent Marine drills. As an often-office worker, when something of this nature is planned, word-of-mouth spreads the info.

It is obvious you made a political, not a tactical, decision. You are a disgusting excuse for an American. If I saw that you were drowning, I would not lend a hand. Please, go jump in a lake.

Like another post, I will refuse any Toledo connection while you hold office. I will not stop for food there while driving I80; I will not plan or attend any conventions there; I will not do business with Toledo businesses.

I guess we should take his advice and spend more money to build a Hollywood set. Get use to the the set then train like mice in a maze. Go over seas unprepared and die from practicing a repetitious event. Different sites and environment help our fellow Americans survive. To bad they went home right away to spend their money back in Michigan. If they got permission originally and approved by paper work why did the mayor get involved. it seems more political to me. So when the firemen burn a building again to practice. They should be kicked out also. That is a disturbing sight with unhealthy air. Sorry firemen and swat teams no practicing you are disturbing the public. Or the mayor just hates the marines or all military personal. You all need to find out who this man really is and vote for someone who truly American. We have less than a year to reach a 26yr retirement It's nice to find out a head of time where we are not welcome. We can still chose from 48 other states. I'm glad My husband was trained well. Knock Knock

I sent my "Suggestions to the Mayor" on the city website. Their server seems a little "slow" for some reason or other!

Response from said website:

The Mayor is interested in what you have to say! Please complete the form below to send your thoughts to the Mayor.

Thank you for your interest in Toledo and continuing committment to help create a community in which we can all be proud to live

Americans, make these idiots think!

Look out Mr. Mayor, there is a Marine hiding under your bed......Bwaaaaaaaaahahahahaha what a weasel.

God Bless the US Military, and their supporters.

Proud Army Mom

I was asked a few months back to teach hand to hand combat to a group of reserve members in the perrysburg area Navy and I believe Marines were offered a chance to attend, being a former Marine I was happy to do it. I have just been asked back a few days ago. I will make a point to ask anyone I teach to not protect the mayor of toledo or anyone on his staff if the situation ever comes up. Sad what this world is coming to.

Holy Toledo, Batman, the mayor is a freakin' fink!

First let me say that liberal politicians scare me a hell of a lot more than the U.S. Marines do. The reason they scare people in Ohio is very simple to explain. They are not on the same side that the marines are. Brings to mind the story of the old WWII vet who still flew a 48 star flag. When asked if he had problems counting Alaska and Hawaii he replied "No, I have problems counting California and Vermont" anyone have a 47 star flag?

Who really wants a bunch of Georgie Shrub Jr.'s stormtroopers crawling around any American city playing war?
Face it, your chimp in chief is one of, if not THE dumbest, most corrupt people ever elected to office.
I'll let you in on a little secret. You're not seen anymore as "beacons of freedom" or big, brave defenders of the country. You're seen as terrorists murdering for oil and defending a person (your little boy King Shrub) who is destroying the constitution and YOUR FREEDOM an everything this country stands for. Your not heroes anymore. He also ruined that reputation.
As long as you do the dirty work of a desk murderer i wouldn't want you in my city either.

Hopefully we will not need the troops in our cities but... Either the mayor thinks only fake cities may be attacked or he thinks there is nothing in Toledo worth going after.

I am glad to see a Mayor stand up to protect his citizens from this gradual encroachment of the military into civilian areas. Contrary to what one writer says, there is a reason for the military to conduct this type of exercise and that is to acclimate americans to having the military in our cities. Since 9/11 our rights have slowly been eradicated. Our activities, phone calls, internet activities have been spied on. Our free speech has been zoned. People are detained without right to council, bail, or to hear the charges against them for months to years, in the name of fighting terrorism. Police conduct random DNA searches. The next step will be to have the military, wearing black face masks like they do in third world countries, conducting random checkpoints and searches.

train as you fight to the best degree possible.
Wallace Wharton, Archbold, OH - you are worthless. that is all.
Tim

I had to google to find out what party affiliation the Mayor from Toledo represented. NO where in the entire article did it say, Mayor Carty Finkbeiner (D) or Democrat.

We all know that our media has become the Joseph Goebbels Propaganda wing of the Democrat party, or what I call the 'Pravada of the West'. But they show their true alligiences when they fail to omit party affilation when a Democrat pulls a bonehead move. They are always ready to state the party affiliation when a Republican does something stupid.

I am also a great and wise leader like Mayor Finkerbean, and I have witnessed these Marines in action in several cities. I can assure you, they are very brave and very frightening! But you, the American people, do not have to put up with it! Follow your Mayor’s example and disband the military. Once you turn the reins of government over to me there will no longer be any reason for fear or strife. Only those that are infected with the diseases of “honor”,”pride” and “patriotism” will be sent to special centers for reeducation/cure. So, surrender and tear up that foolish document called the Constitution; Sharia Law is much better.

DON'T YOU PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT THESE DRILLS ARE PRACTICE RUNS FOR MARTIAL LAW IN AMERICA? Would you like to see the Constitution degraded even further? Haven't you read the OPERATION NORTHWOODS PENTAGON DOCUMENTS? Google it or remain ignorant; your choice.

In your quote from the US Constitution, which read "All enemies foreign and domestic", I believe you improperly ignored the portion about 'Domestic' enemies.
Some examples of domestic enemies:
President Bush
Vice President Cheney
Michael Mukasey
General Hayden
THOSE WHO BLINDLY FOLLOW ALL OF THE ABOVE.

As citizens of the USA, perhaps we ought to re-evaluate what it truly means to have 'domestic' enemies.

War games by the marines, in domestic cities, would NOT help marines fight urban wars in foreign countries as much as it would help them MAINTAIN MARTIAL LAW IN OUR OWN.

How will average US citizens react to marines securing the downtowns of cities without? Will people panic? Will be become angry? What will the limits of the citizens be in reacting to the urban war-games situation?

Those are questions the marines will be seeking answers to, guaranteed. My question is: What good will the reactions of American Citizens do for the marines experiment... if it were applied to other US cities? If it were applied to the middle east?

Our reactions to things of this nature would be entirely different than that of middle eastern people... I contend that these US City urban warfare games are meant for the marines and government to study OUR reactions.

Open your eyes, this is abundantly clear.

The marines or any other military sect has no business training in areas with citizens. All branches of military run their own drills on bases and fields in the training sessions. There is NOT one reason to do this in a highly populated area. It has been going on in lots of states where the military members getting shot because the public is not aware of what is going on, but sometimes the police themselves have not been informed and have shot the military members when as part of the GAME they try to disarm the local police. People need to wake up! How would you react to seeing military running around at night on your street shooting real guns with blanks in them? What would you do when they come snooping around your house? Also in some towns they sneak in (by helicopter) at night and light empty buildings on fire. What exactly are they practicing these tactics for?

the Mayor for standing up against any sort
of live training on American civilians.
Not only is the marine training with civilians a bad idea,i believe it is designed to get people use to seeing them in public.Thats right they are not training for Iraq but training to come and round up your guns.
only the blind ,deaf, and dumb fail to see this.
the war in Iraq is a defeat for America no amount of
marines can win it.It is already lost.It is America that will pay for the defeat,around the world America has gone from beacon of hope to most hated nation.

This is just another example of how liberal, left-wing politicians show that they "SUPPORT THE TROOPS". Just as in Berkeley,CA, their true colors/like their true feelings are reflected in what they do, not what they say.

Are you nuts?

How dare you to prohibit our young service men and women to practice before being dispatched to a very dangerous region?

I don't care about your views if the war is right or wrong. 9-11 and Iraq dragged the U.S. into it. United Nations was useless, as usual.

God Bless G. W. Bush, and our troops. They are volunteers who protect you, and me.

You are disgraceful.

He ought to be glad it is PRETEND and not the REAL THING!

Bad call on behalf of this mayor. He no doubt caused some serious PR (not to mention, economic) damage to a city that, it seems, a boost.

Speaking of alternate urban training sites, why not Detroit? DOZENS of blocks of abandoned buildings to scenario through, and NOBODY will be frightened by the sound of gunfire there (it's ambient noise in Detroit). The "Hip Hop" mayor and his personal protective detail of 20 (yes, that's TWENTY... for one mayor of one failing Midwest city!) might even volunteer to serve as opposition forces.

I won't blame the good citizens of your city but you Mr. Mayor can't be representative of those good folks many of whom have died or know someone who has died or been wounded fighting for this country and yes, that includes Toledo. How dare you! How dare you play partisan politics with the lives of men and women willing to do what you never did...defend the country against all enemies foreign or domestic.

An earlier post listed the email of the mayor as: mayor.toledo@toledo.oh.gov

I sent your comments--all of them, and unedited--unedited, to the mayor at 3:07 a.m. EST. I've not received a reply.

Everybody who is thoroughly disgusted by the domestic enemies of America, please write your congressmen and senators requesting that they withdraw federal funding to any governments that refuse to help suppport our troops. If you have been watching the television pictures, you will see that the terrorists like to hide themselves amongst the civillian population. Gee, where would you find a civillian population...in a city maybe??? Write your congressmen and senators.

The Marines are training in a "real" US city because thats where they will be deployed in the very near future, in order to put down massive civil unrest in the wake of the total collapse of our economy and currency. If you can't see that, you have been sadly deluded by the Mainstream Media. Just continue to watch Cramer, and listen to Paulson and Bernake tell you that "everything is contained".

You need to know what is really going on in the world. All over the country the military is conducting these actions and it does scare the population. The police are for it because they are being militarized through federal funding. If your local government is trying to protect you from the federal government let and support them. The police in different parts of the country are doing terror drills in public schools scaring teachers and children. They are preparing to confiscate our weapons. Watch "Police State II" on google video to educate yourselves.

A message to the business community and the public at large in Toledo:
Shall we be serious? Lots of readers have vented a deluge of wrath at your mayor and your city in this thread. What's needed are consequences and a path for self-correction.
So here's what this Michigan neighbor of yours, who has fairly often come through and to your town, will now do, and recommends that others do. And here's what YOU must do to nullify YOUR contemptible actions, for the mayor does indeed represent YOU.
I'm done with Toledo. I will boycott the city itself and any product that I know of which Toledoans put on the market. That will only change when:
(1) The current mayor is out of this and other public office.
(2) A subsequent mayor apologizes with unmistakeable depth of sincerity and invites the troops back to conduct maneuvers or whatever they need to do there.
(3) Toledoans reimburse the troops for the expenses they incurred in their ill-fated trip to your city, including the actual cost per mile to operate their vehicles.
(3) The troops return to Toledo for military exercises. If you can't bring back this unit, you must induce another to accept your hospitality, however generous that forces you to be.
Growing up in west Michigan, I learned in school that Michigan and Ohio had a brief 1830s border war over Toledo or whatever stood there at the time. The punch line was always that Michigan won and forced Ohio to keep Toledo. I've heard the story and retold it myself many times over the years. I was sure the punch line was merely a joke. I not so confident any more.
Ohioans, what are your prerequisites to become a mayor? You've bestowed on this country such municipal role models as Jerry Springer, the mayor who lost his standing when he wrote a check to a prostitute; Dennis Kucinich, the perennial presidential candidate who gets more attention from UFOs (according to his friends) than from the USA; and now this rude, impudent and incompetent mini-Napoleon with the odd name of "Carty."
How proud you must be.
Why can't you be more like Hoosiers?

I for one am standing with the Mayor. The military has plenty of places that they can train. The cities of this country aren't for the military to train in. Let them build a urban warfare village on a military reservation. The whole Vietnam experience was bad. If the Mayor didn't serve I don't blame him one bit. Why should he have served if in fact most of the young people today don't serve now? What's the differences? I don't see a line outside the recruiting offices do you? Where's the patriotism you're all talking about? Let's look at this from a honest point of view! Don't say he isn't a patriot if you haven't served your time in the military. There are a lot of people in the government today that never served a day in the military. Pick one!

I think both sides of support have been well expended in the comment section, so I won't add to the pile as if the way I say it is going to really have some impact.

I respect people who currently serve and have served this nation. I believe there is a difference between supporting those enlisted to protect and the war that the ones above them start. I do not support this war. But, sir, to quote Rudyard Kipling is fairly ironic. From what I understand, supporters of this war are very adamant about it NOT being about imperialism and modern empire building. That poem (and many others) were written in support of British wars around the turn of the century, including the Boer Wars where British caused independent nations to submit to its empire. Of course, Apartheid is one of the lovely institutions to come out of that, as well as a few other adverse effects. So maybe not use poetry just because it sounds tough and calls people who question military action cowards, eh? Rescheduling a training exercise, whether wrong or right, is hardly an act of treason as many seem to think it is. Perspective is drastically needed in this country.

Military training in US cities serves only one purpose. That is to condition the masses for a police state.

I hope more mayors across the country WAKE UP and do the same thing.

First Berkley and now Toledo? This is ridiculous and incredibly insulting to our armed forces. The federal government should pull all funding for all projects for the city of Toledo. You don't want our military in your town? Fine. You can pay for everything on your own. No money for roads, schools, grant projects etc...

Pathetic.

All,
Please disregard the comments of Joe Clark. I WILL first start off with how horribly he wrote his editorial. I too do not want any soldiers to "dye". I wouldn't berate him for solely that...no, Joe had to have such an obtuse view on where our military's focus should be.

According to Joe, their place is on our nation's borders repelling all hostile invaders. While I do agree that we need to derive a solution to our porous borders and the thousands of illegals already in our country, I submit that it is NOT the Marine's job.

Neil Radulski

It looks like it's time to take all federal funding from this city, as has been proposed in Berkeley, CA when they treated our Marine Corps so traitorously.

Wallace...give up YOUR farmland and money to build an urban training environmnent and I won't call you out for being completely lost.

Rodney,
Show me how you have the latest dirt on the military budget and I'll back your position 100%. Show me that the Department of Defense has money to funnel every combat unit through an established MOUT(W) (don't forget the W) training facility prior to heading into the combat zone.

Oh, were you drafted?

Neil Radulski

The Marines are training for the future when the liberals take office and surrender they want to be ready to defend us on our own soil. Regardless we as Americans need to do any and everything we can do to help the these heros do their jobs, just remember that as we pursue our dreams and live free here in the USA these men and women that have voluntered to defend us and others that are being exploited, they are in harms way for our freedom, Therefore I say accomodate their training in any fashion it is the least we can do!! And the people of Ohio should push for a recall of this mans political position sounds like a power struggle between him and the Cheif of Police!!!! JMO

Tsk tsk on the Toledo mayor. If the police don't have a problem with the training, he shouldn't either. Sounds like he doesn't care for the military but I'll bet he sure likes the freedoms the military has provided him. As for the writer who posted that we're no safer after 9-11, I have to ask him, where have all the attacks on the U.S. been since then? Not a single one although recent news articles point out that 19 major attacks have been thwarted. As for the MOUT sites, I've trained at several of them and most of them are inadequate to simulate a true urban area. I question his "infantry" experience. Semper Fi Marine Corps. Most of us out here love you and all our folks in uniform.

It's odd of how the liberal democRATS in the country appreciate the military when a natural disaster happens, or to provide aid for some countries, but when our national security is at stake they have a loathsome atitude towards the military.

Whenever I see someone in uniform it certainly makes me feel safer as I can't defend myself against a terrorist. The USA military will be the first and foremost the best gov't program out there, and the best at defending my freedom!

GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS!!!

I will now add Toledo to the list af places I won't be spending any money or time in, along with France,San Francisco and Berkley. Hard to believe it's this way in what is supposed to be the Heartland of the country.

God help us, opp's I probably shouldn't mention God or Country.

Being one that lived in Toledo for a number of years I can say that the mayors actions are typical. The city is the armpit of the state and everyone in Ohio knows it. There are no jobs in Toledo, no businesses in Toledo, no hope in Toledo. The mayor should be ashamed of his attitude toward those serving this country. This latest genius decision by Carty reinforces the fact Toledo sucks.

Practicing in abandoned buildings is great for practing a war scenario where there are no civilians to contend with. May I ask, where in Iraq is that? I would think Marines trained to deal with warfare in a more realistic setting would make for Marines that are better at protecting citizens.

To our Naval expert who supports the Berkley-esque mayor, I propose two questions. One, does being on a boat practicing naval disciplines make you an expert on Marine close quarters combat and urban warfare? Two, how do American soldiers practicing in America intimidate people? Soldiers where I live, in Hampton Roads, VA, routinely practice no matter who's in office. We are never scared to see soldiers practice in the state park, among other civilians. We are never scared to see the Seals or Army patrol boats rush around the Chesapeake Bay, weaving in and out of civilian boats. They're practicing along the lines of where they might experience combat. I would be intimidated by soldiers who's experience could be equal to my own, which is none, because they couldn't practice in a realistic setting for the danger to come. By the way, who says it's just about Iraq? Shouldn't our soldiers be trained to protect us where we live?

Military exercises don't equal Iraq. Berkley and Toledo are just as prime targets for terroists and enemy action as any other U.S. city. If, God forbid, something happened in Toledo would you tell the Marines to stay home then? It's the same metality as hating all cops because of a few bad ones, and yet screaming for help from 911 when something goes down.

For the record read the following: I have never been in the military and have no family in the military, and I don't like this war but support the troops and their training which prepares them for domestic and international scenarios.

Once again we see another Baby Boomer Democrat who sat out the Vietnam war by protest and a college deferment,now in a position of power! The legacy of Vietnam is not defeat; but rather the cowardice of those who let us down, like the Clintons and this coward.

I sure hope that the good citizens of Toledo get rid of this "butt wipe" Carty Finkbeiner!

Semper Fi!

Once again we see another Baby Boomer Democrat who sat out the Vietnam war by protest and a college deferment,now in a position of power! The legacy of Vietnam is not defeat; but rather the cowardice of those who let us down, like the Clintons and this coward.

I agree with the Mayor. The Marines have no business training in residential areas. Dear Lord how much farmland is there around here? Put them out in the country on psuedo-urban sets that they can build and play war games to their hearts content.

As a former Infantryman, former Ohioan and current Michiganian, I can see no reason for conducting training in downtown Toledo. There are plenty of MOUT sites at real Army and Marine camps, plenty of bases to train on, plenty of places where this kind of training could be conducted where it would not cause any disruption to the public.

The commander who thought this up should have his head examined. The police who allow this to occur have lost sight of their public safety mission. Thank God for mayors who will stand up to this kind of tyranny.

I've watched far too many of our civil liberties erode in the panic that has been fed since 9/11. We're no safer folks, but we are closer to martial law.

Toledo's current mayor, Carty Finkbeiner, hopefully is not representative of the majority of citizens of Toledo. I should hope that Toledo never needs the assistance of the National Guard or reserve components of the US Military. I can't imagine a mayor of our city ever pulling such a stunt. If one did, he likely would face a recall petition and an early election. He certainly would be facing some very heavy criticism from a broad spectrum of the community.

It is interesting to note that the two left-wing paranoids who defended the mayor's actions are both from California. No surprise there.
I was told a story today by a major who served a tour of heavy combat in Iraq. In one engagment his armored patrol entered a town, right into a well planned trap. The insurgents opened up on them from the front, sides, windows, doors and rooftops, with automatic weapons fire and RPGs. They immediately blocked the street the patrol entered, thus preventing a withdrawal and reinforcements. So much antiaircraft was set up that resupply was impossible.
As the battle raged the major noticed that one of the two 50-caliber machine guns mounted on vehicles behind him was not firing, so he yelled to a sergeant to go back and check out the gunner, find out if he was dead or wounded and needed a medic, then man the gun himself.
What the sergeant found stunned him. The gunner had climbed down off his gun emplacement because he spotted a naked girl of about seven years old standing up against the building next to him, shaking with fright. The gunner took off his protective armor, then his T-shirt, which he put on the little girl like a dress. Then he took his belt and put it around her to pull it in at the waist. Finally he put her in a place of safety and only then put his armor back on and once more manned his machine gun.
That is the type of people we have serving in our military, the best America has to offer...and the mayor of Toledo has shown us that those brave people of character are too good to serve in Toledo. If the people of Toledo want that guy for a mayor, they deserve him. Not a nickel of my money will ever be spent again in Fifth Third Stadium, any bar or restaurant, and if possible, any Ohio gas station. The despicable action by that mayor should not be left to fade away.

Mayor Finkbiner (emphasis on "fink"),

If I were Commandant of the US Marine Corps, I would put Toledo on the "no-show" list if a call for assistance is ever received while "you" are mayor.

All American citizens are required by the U,S. Constitution to "defend our nation from all enemies foreign and domestic." I assume you are a citizen, so shape it up and cooperate with the US Military who are charged with doing your job for you.

Disgusted In Misouri

I'm trying to understand the Mayor's reason for removing the Marines. I cannot come up with any understanding of his actions.

Would the Mayor kick the Marines out of Toledo if there were serious problems in the Toledo area that needed Marine protection, for instance the imposition of martial law because of some natural disaster?

It's incomprehensible that the Mayor rejects his friends, the Marines, so gratuitously.

It might be wise for voters to reject the Mayor completely in the next election. Very often a man is measured by the friends he keeps.

Perhaps the next time the city of Toledo needs the National Guard the President should activate them and tell them to sit tight. It might make some of the liberal politicians realize that we do need a fighting force that is well trained.

Mayor Finkbeiner,

I hope that the city of Toledo will be outraged when the comparisons to Berkeley, CA begin.

That you believe an announced military training exercise will "frighten" the citizens of the city really is preposterous.

Hopefully the good people of Toledo support the Marines and the rest of the Military enough that they will tell you, Mayor Finkbeiner that they don't want you in town anymore.

With any luck, this disruption in the Urban Warfare Training (the type of warfare these Marines will most likely see if they go to Iraq or Afghanistan) won't compromise their readiness if they are called upon to deploy.

If this type of training can prepare our Marines, perhaps even save lives, then Toledo should be grateful that they have something to offer to the effort, not shun those that are willing to go to the front lines when duty calls.

I personally am going to contact my congressional representatives and senators and see if there are any Federal earmark projects headed Toledo's way that can be stopped.

I hope that by Monday, the citizens of Toledo have made it clear to the country that their Mayor does not speak for them, and that they are replacing him with a Mayor that does.

Sincerely,

Mike Cervi

US Navy, Retired

Whatever happened to American patriotism? If this story is accuarate the Mayor is a sorry excuse for what now passes as an American Leader.

Let me explain it...The United States is engaged in a war, many young Soldiers and Marines are dying in this war. Allowing them to train in the City may help some survive that war. As American's the very least we can all do is fully support these young patriots willing to put themselves at risk.

Although some may think its trendy to be anti-war and anti military don't be fooled into thinking that a lot of other Americans feel that way, most don't! We support our troops and will not tolerate those who don't!

What amazes me is the citizenry that these soldiers are sworn to protect are all intimidated by their protectors. Usually the ones threatened by their parents, teacher, pastors, police or military are those who have or are doing something that may well alert the attention of those authorities. My pappa used to say, "If you ain't got nothin'to hide, you ain't got notthin' to worry about. I would feel safer seeing the troops training in my hometown rather than the enemy setting up encampments outside it.

If his city is attacked, I guess he would be able to fight off those who attack all by his little self! DANG! What a hero you have for a mayor, Toledo. (I like your city, but your mayor...meh)